Is PEGI too tough?

The ratings game.

Later this year PEGI will become the legally enforceable ratings body for games in the UK, completely replacing the BBFC. Wherever creative content is legislated in this way, friction is inevitable. And almost always, controversy arises because a rating is seen to be making it too easy for inappropriate material to reach the jam-stained fingers of our innocent children.

The recent furore over We Dare, Ubisoft's dreary collection of allegedly saucy mini-games, is a good example of what can happen when content and context fail to align.

PEGI rated it as 12 because there was nothing in the game itself, according to their guidelines, that warranted a higher rating. Whatever sexy facade We Dare wore came from its advertising, not what was on the screen.

Over the last few years, however, there has been a curious creep in the opposite direction. Games that seem relatively benign have been rated suitable only for those aged 16 and over.

For me, the parent of a keen gaming 8 year-old increasingly curious about what lies behind those age-related barriers and the editor of Eurogamer's site for kids, Megaton, things weren't adding up.

My curiosity was piqued in 2008 when my son fell in love with Castle Crashers, The Behemoth's deliciously silly scrolling beat-em-up. The game featured a few small spurts of blood and lots of poo jokes, but after playing it from beginning to end, I struggled to see why it had been deemed suitable only for 16 year-olds.

It seemed like a ludicrous decision, especially when the only explanation on the PEGI website was that this highly stylised cartoon game contained "realistic-looking violence".

1

Castle Crashers: is this realistic violence?

This stood in stark contrast to Naughty Bear, rated 12, a game so sadistic and violent that the PR responsible for sending me a copy actually made a point of saying that it really wasn't suitable for kids. Looking for clarification, the PEGI rating explained that while Naughty Bear also contained "realistic looking violence", it was aimed at "non-human characters".

The same actions carried out on humans would basically make the game Manhunt 2. Against ironic cuddly toys, the violence was literally child's play. Something felt wrong.

Examples have continued to crop up over the past year, suggesting PEGI was perhaps struggling to bridge the gap between 12 and 16. Iron Man 2 and Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands, for instance, were rated 16 for 360 and PS3 players - but 12 for Wii owners, despite being virtually identical.

Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions and Star Wars: The Force Unleashed were rated 16, the same rating dished out to grisly foul-mouthed shooters like Metro 2033 and Crysis 2, despite featuring no sex or bad language and only bloodless violence.

The comic book action of Batman: Arkham Asylum was rated 16, even though its admittedly hard-hitting combat was nowhere near as grisly as the 12A rated Dark Knight movie, with a pencil-in-eyeball gag, cheek-slashing, a man with a bomb sewn under his skin and Harvey Dent's gruesomely realistic facemeat.

2

Spider-Man went from a 12 rating to a 16 because of one cut-scene.

The notion that I couldn't cover Batman, Spider-Man and Star Wars games on a website aimed at 12-year-olds seemed daft. It bothered me that it was only because my job involved playing those games, and seeing what they contained, that the discrepancy was obvious. Parents with no gaming experience would be making decisions based on what I saw as skewed information.

Finally, I decided to get in touch with PEGI to find out exactly how some of these ratings were determined and what criteria the organisation uses to reach its decisions.

The way PEGI works is that publishers submit their games along with an assessment form, detailing all content that could affect the final rating. On the form are 50 categories which break down every possible type of violence, profanity or sexual content into different age-restricted bands.

"Depictions of violence that is humorous and is set in a cartoon, slapstick or child-like setting" would result in a rating suitable for 3 year-olds. "Moving images that depict mutilation or torture of human-like or animal-like characters" naturally lead to an 18.

Illegal drugs are inappropriate for a 12 rating, but fine under a 16. Sexual innuendo is OK for a 12 rating, but more explicit sex talk bumps things up to a 16. "Realistic violence" against fantasy characters is allowed for a 12, as is non-realistic violence against human characters.

Reading through the list it's hard to argue with any of the categories, or the sensible and balanced guidance offered on how to interpret each band. There are still some eyebrow-raisers though. The rather quaint "bloody hell" warrants a 12 rating just as much as more forthright swears like "shit", "wanker" and "twat". All racial and homophobic slurs also fall under the 12 rating, interestingly.

Final ratings are then handled two organisations which check the publisher's assessment form against the material that has been flagged. PEGI does not play the games from start to end or attempt to see everything in the game.

Games rated 3 or 7 fall to NICAM in the Netherlands, while the Video Standards Council in London tackles 12, 16 and 18 games. Key to the ratings process is the fact that as a pan-European body, PEGI has no wriggle room for incorporating cultural context into a rating.

"I think there is a problem in that the UK has some difficulty in accepting and possibly understanding that the PEGI games rating system is not like the BBFC film and video rating system", explains Gianni Zamo, communications officer for the Video Standards Council.

"The BBFC operates on a contextually-sensitive basis which gives them a certain amount of freedom in deciding a film category. As an example, The King's Speech was given a 12A certificate even though the film contained a goodly smattering of f-words that would normally get a 15.

"However, the BBFC justifies the 12A by contextualising the use of the bad language stating that it is said in a speech therapy context rather than being used abusively or aggressively.

"I suspect the average German, Italian or Frenchman isn't remotely interested in Anglo-Saxon swearwords and their potential to offend."

"Here in the UK most of us would probably understand and accept that rationale. In mainland Europe however, it's pretty meaningless given that the f-word carries no weight as a swear word and I suspect the average German, Italian or Frenchman isn't remotely interested in Anglo-Saxon swearwords and their potential to offend."

As it turns out, The Kings Speech was given a 7 rating in Switzerland and a PG in Singapore - "Which suggests that the bad language was not an issue as far as these countries were concerned," says Zamo.

"In short, therefore, the use of context is very localised. What might be contextually acceptable in one country may not be so in another, which is why the PEGI system cannot function on this basis, nor would it wish to do so."

So instead PEGI bases its ratings on whether or not the imagery of a game is likely to cause "harm" to a particular age group, a distinction that Zamo admits is the subject of much debate.

"For western Europe at least, there do appear to be some commonly shared values and an understanding of what is considered to be appropriate for each age group.

"As an example, a game featuring strong, explicit sexual violence is unlikely to be considered suitable for anything other than an adult audience. Different degrees of violence will result in nuanced age ratings, depending on how realistic and true-to-life the on-screen representation of a violent act is."

3

Iron Man 2: suitable for kids on the Wii, but not on 360.

This often isn't the case for film, Zamo says. For instance, French film censors have a reputation for being liberal compared to the UK. 'The Exorcist' was finally awarded an uncut 18 rating for Britain in 1999, "Whereas the French gave it a '-12' (forbidden for under 12s) without a second thought. Go figure, as the Americans would say."

There are also some common misconceptions about what elements impact a PEGI rating. Although online play appears as one of the advisory icons on packaging, it doesn't change the rating.

"Neither the PEGI system nor any other regulatory system can legislate for the behaviour of a user online or any user-generated content which is not a normal part of the game," Zamo explains.

PEGI does uphold the PEGI Online Safety Code, however, which requires publishers to police their own online communities to ensure it remains in line with accepted standards.

Nor does repetition of an action alter a rating. This was one of the assumptions I had made to explain why a game like Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions might be rated 16, on the basis that thousands of punches to the face of hapless goons might have some cumulative effect that wouldn't hold true of a similar one-off action in a movie.

Not so, says Zamo. "One punch or one hundred doesn't make a difference. Repetition of a particular action doesn't constitute a 'harm' in itself." However, the way in which it is presented might, such as the difference between the fantasy, comic fighting of Crash Bandicoot as opposed to the unremitting, brutal violence of Modern Warfare.

So what does this mean for the games whose ratings so baffled me in the first place? I wanted to know if the reason games were getting lower ratings on the Wii than on HD consoles was because the higher resolution made the action more explicit. As it turns out, the distinction was even smaller than that.

The 360 and PS3 versions of Iron Man 2 were rated 16 because the violence was judged to be more "realistic". Realism, in this case, isn't even based on the violence itself, but its aftermath: defeated enemies stay on the ground on the 360 and PS3, but vanish on the Wii. That can be all that's needed to nudge a game from a 12 to a 16.

In the case of Spider-Man, it turns out that the game was actually suitable for a 12 rating, right up until the last scene which was judged violent enough to change the rating.

"This is an example of a game that ultimately found itself sitting on the cusp between one rating and another," says Zamo, having retrieved the original rating documentation for the title.

"It seems that Spider-Man was, indeed, considered to be suitable at 12 save for a final scene involving multiple Spider-Men attacking a villain. Although the scene lacks any visceral element to it, it was felt to be sufficiently brutalising enough, with endless punches rained down on the villain, for it to warrant a shunt into 16."

4

The Dark Knight can be seen by 12-year-olds, but Batman's games are off-limits.

These cases are obviously the exception rather than the rule, but they do raise important questions if PEGI is truly going to become as ubiquitous and widely understood as the BBFC ratings are for cinema.

Is the average customer on the street, that Mum or Dad looking for a game for their 12-year-old, going to be aware that the Spider-Man game is almost entirely suitable for their child, apart from one scene?

And is it fair that one child can play a game on their Wii, even if that game is Iron Man 2, while their friend has to wait four years just because their console has enough processing power to remember where enemies have fallen?

Personally, I'm still not convinced we have the right answers. I think PEGI offers a valuable service, and makes difficult decisions with, as I discovered, admirable transparency.

Clearly, the system is getting most things right. In 2010 PEGI fielded just 1684 enquiries from the public across the whole of Europe. Of those, most were apparently people asking how their consoles work or whether the ratings are a guide to the difficulty of a game ("Clearly there's some awareness work to be done on that one!" jokes Zamo). Just 115 were from people complaining about a rating.

Yet while I'm pleased to see games rated as games, rather than subjected to ratings designed for a different media, if a 16 certificate can cover everything from the benign comic book punch-ups of Spider-Man to the sweary stealth-kill headshot violence of Crysis 2, doesn't that risk making the PEGI rating a little less credible in the eyes of parents?

"I can see that some people might find it hard to comprehend the difference between [Spider-Man] and Crysis 2. However, I doubt that this in itself would lead to a wholesale loss of credibility."

"It's a subtle difference and not, perhaps, something that the average gamer would immediately recognise or understand", Zamo admits, "So I can see that some people might find it hard to comprehend the difference between [Spider-Man] and Crysis 2. However, I doubt that this in itself would lead to a wholesale loss of credibility."

I can't quite agree. If consumers find it hard to comprehend the difference between two games with the same rating, it suggests that there's a blind spot in the system. Particularly, it seems, for games that fall between the 12 and 16 ratings by relying on visceral yet non-explicit action, usually in a fantasy setting but against human foes.

I find it hard to believe that the sight of multiple dimension-hopping Spider-Mans delivering three punches to a bad guy or a digital body lying on the ground is going to cause "harm" a 12-year-old, who can already legally see far worse in live action movies. A ratings system that is too lenient will obviously cause an outcry, but moving too far in the other direction is hardly desirable either.

We're already seeing games migrate away from the middle ground where content is concerned, with inoffensive kid's titles at one end, blood-soaked adult titles at the other and very little in between.

As PEGI ratings become legally enforceable, it would be a shame if the few games that still aim to satisfy the young teen audience without pandering to gory bloodlust were placed out of reach by a ratings system designed to accommodate them.

Comments (67) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Architect_z #1 1 year ago

    PEGI is only advisable isnt it? It's only BBFC (in the UK) that enforce age restiction by law.

    I'm sure the age ratings on games play an important part, however I was about 7 years old when I first played Mortal Kombat, and that was an 18 and temporarily banned in some parts of the world because of its gore content. I was probably the same age when I first saw Arnie's Commando.

    Kids will play games/watch movies they are not suitable for at their age, it just happens.
  • hippyjump #2 1 year ago

  • Architect_z #3 1 year ago

    @Hippyjump

    Commando was my fave film as a kid. ^_^
    Edited by Architect_z at 14/04/11 @ 14:13
  • Softie2k #4 1 year ago

    I wonder how many times these systems have actually prevented an adult from accidently buying an unsuitable game for a minor? The numbers must be very low.

  • FuzzyDuck #5 1 year ago

    I'm sure our friends Down Under wouldn't mind some "tough" PEGI love.
  • schnide #6 1 year ago

    "Is the average customer on the street, that Mum or Dad looking for a game for their 12-year-old, going to be aware that the Spider-Man game is almost entirely suitable for their child, apart from one scene?"

    No, and nor do they need to be if PEGI has rated it a 16 because of one scene. That's why PEGI is there for them.

    "And is it fair that one child can play a game on their Wii, even if that game is Iron Man 2, while their friend has to wait four years just because their console has enough processing power to remember where enemies have fallen?"

    It doesn't matter if it's a technical reason that's produced the different content, it's still different content as far as the end user is concerned and therefore has a different impact.

    I was expecting to come away thinking that the PEGI system was pretty bad. On the whole, reading Zamo's responses, I was actually quite impressed with it, all things considered. Age ratings for games will always be partially objective, and there may be bad calls from time to time, but they seem to be doing a good job of a hard job.
  • YailBloor #7 1 year ago

    Good article. I think the onus should be on the individual parent to make a sensible and informed decision as to what they believe is suitable for their own child. I got given Mortal Kombat 2 for the Megadrive as a child, but my parents were aware of the content and thought I was mature enough to separate the fantasy from the reality. To this day, I have never punched somebody’s head off, so I guess it was fine……

    Incidentally, typo top of page 2: ‘Final ratings are then handled two organisations which check the publisher's assessment…..’

    EDIT: I too loved Commando as a child, watching it on lp in an sp-only video player (so it ran at twice the speed) used to make me piss with laughter.....
    Edited by YailBloor at 14/04/11 @ 14:22
  • YenRug #8 1 year ago

    @Architect_z

    I believe once PEGI becomes the de facto age classification for games, later this year, it will be legally binding/enforcable in the UK.

    As to the concerns of this article, maybe a "modifier" could be added to classifications to indicate borderline cases, say a + symbol, that way the Spider Man game could have been rated 12+ to explain that the vast majority of the game was suitable but there were a limited number of parts/depictions which took it to the next level.
    Edited by YenRug at 14/04/11 @ 14:25
  • madnizz #9 1 year ago

    Nice article, i think PEGI is good and fair enough. Wonder what you'll say if British games are being screened by German USK. USK is totally too tough, there are many games you won't even see on shelves legally in Germany....and the next game in category will be Gears Of War 3, none of the series is legally available for purchase....for reasons i found stupid. They could just rate it 18+
  • kinky_mong #10 1 year ago

    The comic book action of Batman: Arkham Asylum was rated 16, even though its admittedly hard-hitting combat was nowhere near as grisly as the 12A rated Dark Knight movie, with a pencil-in-eyeball gag

    I thought the pencil went up his nose, not in his eye?
  • YenRug #11 1 year ago

    @madnizz

    I'm not aware of PEGI and USK being officially connected, either way, USK classifications only apply to Germany. A game banned by USK will be freely available elsewhere, which is generally the saviour of adult gamer's mental states in Germany when it comes to obtaining banned games.

    Also, PEGI does not have a censorship position on games (except where the depiction of certain acts are illegal), they will always rate a game no matter how graphic, unlike BBFC with cases like Manhunt 2.
  • metalangel #12 1 year ago

    It's just there to provide guidance. If you, the parent, either ignore it or follow its ratings to the letter you're equally bad as you aren't taking an interest in your kids or what they're doing... you're just buying another box of Shut Them Kids Up For A Week Or Two.
  • LeChuckie #13 1 year ago

    Excellent article. Answered some questions I've had and also raised the issue that I hadn't really considered. Lets hope somebody's paying attention.
  • Frautz #14 1 year ago

    The PEGI may have its flaws, but you should still consider yourself really lucky for not having to live with the USK and BPjM systems, that every german gamer has to endure. Cutting and banning oh-so-violent games, that other countries deem suitable in their uncut state for 16 year olds is not the exception but the standard in Germany. PEGI is something german adults have to look up to and hope for.
  • God_Octo #15 1 year ago

    I still don't get why PEGI has replaced the normal BBFC ratings system. The BBFC system meant that the UK had a unified system for all visual media, along with established age boundaries, meaning people already knew what they all meant. Now there's gonna be a totally new system, and parents are going to have to relearn what the system means.

    The carpet-bombing take on age restrictions seems a little silly if you ask me.
  • SteelPriest #16 1 year ago

    Christ, people need to stop treating kids like children.

    But seriously, like most people here I'm sure my parents didn't restrict my gaming (or film watching) at all really, and I feel like i've grown up a reasonably well rounded human being - probably more so than those that did.

    I don't think i've ever seen anything any any game that i wouldn't show any children i might hypothetically have in the future. Although i probably wouldn't actively encourage those japanese ones with the tentacles and whatnot...

    I reckon children gain their social and moral values from interacting with real people, not killing graphic representations of things or seeing fake boobies drawn by men. As for swearing, wtf!? don't get me started on the prudish restriction of valuable vocabulary...
  • nuanimal #17 1 year ago

    Very good article. Didn't realise PEGI was going to become legally enforcable!?

    Whatever happened to Tanya Napier's report recommendation that the BBFC should get more control over game ratings? This make sense for the UK - but a PAN-European body will cause problems as you generally go by the most restrictive criteria - and this misses the good point from Dan, that context should be taken into account with ratings.

    It does not make sense to allow contries to have their own ratings for films and TV shows - but then to have a continent encompassing system for games!?

    @Architect_z

    Did you read the article? PEGI will become enforcable this year?
  • PixelPirate #18 1 year ago

    The problem isn't that age ratings are too tough, they seem pretty fair.

    Its the idiotic parents that let 8 year olds stay up all night playing 18 rated games all night that are the issue.

    They need to start properly clamping down on younger kids standing next to their parents who are blatantly buying them the games without realising what they are getting.
  • PixelPirate #19 1 year ago

    The comic book action of Batman: Arkham Asylum was rated 16, even though its admittedly hard-hitting combat was nowhere near as grisly as the 12A rated Dark Knight movie, with a pencil-in-eyeball gag

    I thought the pencil went up his nose, not in his eye?


    It happened just off camera, you never saw where it went. And that's the point. Not showing it, means you mind fills in the gaps and you make it worse than it is, but perversely at the same time means the censors cant pull you up on it.

    The other difference is context. You play a game for alot longer than 2 1/2 hrs. A film is watched and then forgotten about (generally, sans super fans) games are played over a longer period of time, which tends to shape your behaviour as a young child alot more.
    Edited by PixelPirate at 14/04/11 @ 14:56
  • MadDave123 #20 1 year ago

    @God_Octo

    The problem with the BBFC is that it doesn't rate all games media. It is only required for games which receive a PEGI 18+ rating or if the game contains any video content (trailers, bonus movies, etc). If neither of those conditions are met then the BBFC don't the game, nor will they do so for any online content; as they are only required to rate retail products.

    So whilst the BBFC is a widely recognised rating system in the UK, it has no where near the coverage that PEGI does.

    Edit: Hmm, getting neg'd for stating facts? Obviously I should've known better. -_-
    Edited by MadDave123 at 14/04/11 @ 16:40
  • schnide #21 1 year ago

    @SteelPriest

    Just because you turned out okay, doesn't make it right for all kids. Not everyone might be as well adjusted as you, or have parents who helped make you so open-minded. Part of the problem is that PEGI and other rating systems have to account for a very uneven playing field in terms of what kids are getting access to.

    Let's say a kid growing up in a household who sees everyday examples of violence to women gets access to GTA and is given the opportunity to beat up prostitutes. Are you comfortable with that? It's an extreme example, but it will happen.
  • Flabio #22 1 year ago

    I think not taking into account context when rating is a shame. It makes the PEGI system nothing more than box-ticking, and in the long run less effective than the BBFC system was.

    Although the fact they don't ever refuse to classify is interesting.

    Publishers do sometimes ask developers to change content to get a lower rating (more common in the states, where having a T instead of an M can create enough extra sales to save a game from failing to break even), and if it's going to be trickier to get a 12 under PEGI than it was under the BBFC then there's potential for developers in the UK deciding to self-censor a little more than they are now.
  • metalangel #23 1 year ago

    @SteelPriest: I dunno, you let your kids watch Rika get it in all three holes from tentacles in Jiburiru, then see how they react to an octopus in an aquarium or indeed some seaweed snagging their leg while they're swimming...
  • wizlon #24 1 year ago

    To be fair, The Dark Knight was never a 12A, I would never let a child see that, parts of that film made me feel ill. As awesome as it was.
  • Whitster #25 1 year ago

    Personally I think that the move to PEGI will only confuse parents more as they've been used to BBFC ratings all their lives. Also I know during the 5 years I worked at Gamestation we always advised parents that PEGI was a reccommendation where as BBFC was a legal requirement, alot of them won't realise this has changed.
  • kangarootoo #26 1 year ago

    Not sure about this bit at all.

    "Clearly, the system is getting most things right. In 2010 PEGI fielded just 1684 enquiries from the public across the whole of Europe. Of those, most were apparently people asking how their consoles work or whether the ratings are a guide to the difficulty of a game ("Clearly there's some awareness work to be done on that one!" jokes Zamo). Just 115 were from people complaining about a rating."

    You say its getting things mostly right, but then go on to state that the vast majority of complaints show a deep lack of understand of the very purpose of the system.

    Surely a more reliable, if lengthier, statement would be -

    "It might be getting things right, or it might be getting things wrong, but given the only way of testing this is relying on feedback from the public and knowing that the majority of the public don't understand the purpose or function of the system, we can't know either way and have to take it on trust".

    115 complaints doesn't mean only 115 people objected. It means that only 115 people knew enough about the system to convey an objection to the right people. The number of objections (about the content, or the rating applied to it) could have been far higher. We have no way of knowing.



    Anyway, I'm being a pedant for sound deduction in this case. Otherwise, a very good article.
  • KDR_11k #27 1 year ago

    Gears of War isn't banned in Germany, it was just refused a rating and thus Epic and MS decided not to release it here. Dawn of War 2 with its sync kills and dismemberment only got rated 16 though.
  • Soton4084 #28 1 year ago

    @God_Octo

    I totally agree with the points you have made. Whilst I doubt how effective age ratings as a whole are at stopping underage children from purchasing inappropriate games, the BBFC system was the best choice for games classification in my opinion. The fact that it only applies to games which meet a certain criteria (as pointed out by MadDave123) obviously caused confusion with the two sets of ratings being used on different games. However, if the full range of ratings (U, PG, 12, 15, 18) were applied to all games then I think that BBFC would be a far superior ratings system in terms of parental recognition in the UK. Every parent knows that those symbols refer to the content in movies and they should automatically recognise that the same ratings used on games refer to the content. PEGI could easily be mistaken for difficulty ratings and whilst educating consumers/customers might address any misconceptions, it will not benefit from the same automatic recognition as BBFC does.

  • chrisjm #29 1 year ago

    If all games had to have BBFC, the cost of european PEGI rating +uk only BBFC will mean some games never got released here.
  • spekkeh #30 1 year ago

    A Pan-European rating system may just be a bad idea because of the cultural differences. Zamo says that for Western Europe at least there seem to be shared values and an understanding of what is appropriate for kids. But here in the Netherlands, a small swim away from the UK, The King's Speech received an 'all ages' rating (not even parental guidance). We're not at all bothered about swearing in television even in our native language; if you don't want kids exposed to swearing they wouldn't even be able to leave the house. Likewise, the general consensus seems to be that sex = 12 years and up, while strong violence = 16 years and up, a reversal of what many other countries think.

    Personally, I think PEGI is way too tough and because of that in danger of not being taken seriously by parents. But then, I recognize that's my culture talking, and somebody else in Europe might think differently.
  • RexRunti #31 1 year ago

    BBFC was initially recommended to take over PEGI's role (I think everyone can agree that having two systems is stupid). However all the publishers complained that they'd need to comply with a different system from the rest of europe so the previous government changed it to PEGI. This is despite the fact that PEGI caters to european values not british and that they don't even bother playing the game to give it a rating unlike the BBFC. To give you an idea of quite how stupid the PEGI system is Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Bayonetta were all rated 18 by PEGI, but 12, 15 and 15 by the BBFC.

    Personally I think the governemnt should allow the BBFC to take over video games again (and create a few more British jobs).
  • RichieTenenbaum #32 1 year ago

    That Stan Lee narration on the linked S-M:SD clip is ACE
  • disappointed #33 1 year ago

    They're misunderstanding Europe if they think a single set of moral guidelines will cover all the nations of the EU satisfactorily. I once saw a marvellous advert on Italian telly for bottled water, which showed the water being poured over a woman's naked breast. T'was very persuasive. Would never have been allowed over here. The BBFC worked for the UK. It wasn't broken, it shouldn't be fixed.
  • RexRunti #34 1 year ago

    PEGI's justification of the 18 rating for Bayonetta

    The content of this game is suitable for persons aged 18 years and over only.
    It contains: Extreme violence - Strong language
    This game allows the player to interact with other players ONLINE


    BBFC's justification for the 15 rating of Bayonetta


    BAYONETTA is a fantasy action adventure game in which the player controls a witch fighting an array of creatures.

    The game was classified '15' for strong language and bloody violence. At '15', the BBFC's Guidelines state that 'violence may be strong but may not dwell on the infliction of pain or injury'. In BAYONETTA, the bloody violence is frequent and consists of clouds of blood, arterial spurts and flying limbs during combat, as well as 'torture' moves in which Bayonetta puts her enemies on a rack, into a spiked cabinet and so on. Such sequences are not presented in a realistic manner - one involves pulling a female monster to a rack and tightening a chain - with resulting breast jiggling - before the victim explodes in a puff of blood and body parts. Throughout the game, Bayonetta's enemies are fantastical rather than realistic in appearance, and the levels are mostly set within a clearly unrealistic universe. There is no opportunity to further damage bodies post-mortem, and none of the corpses stay in the environment for more than a few seconds.

    At '15', the BBFC's Guidelines state that 'there may be frequent use of strong language'. The language in the game occurs during the 'cut scenes', and there are over fifteen uses during the normal course of the game.

    The game also contains some moderate sex references, with numerous camera angles focusing on the female characters' bodies and costumes throughout.


    I know which rating system I trust more.
  • HL706 #35 1 year ago

    Wouldn't the simple solution for games in between a 12 and 16 be to have a 14 as well?
  • fizzyfish #36 1 year ago

    Reads like a 7 (but rated 12 for the swear words).
  • digitalash #37 1 year ago

    I admire their openness, but Spider-Man Shattered Dimensions should have been a 12, no matter how many times the villain gets bloodlessly punched by latex crime-fighters.

    Arkham Asylum, however, definitely does deserve a 16. It takes place in a world slightly closer to reality, and it's overwhelmingly dark/horror themed. Fights aren't realistic, but they do incorporate elements of "imitable violence" - most of them involve convicts attacking batman with realistic firearms or improvised weapons like lead pipes. The distinction is pretty plain.
  • kangarootoo #38 1 year ago

    @digitalash

    I think the reason that final scene in Spiderman lifted the rating wasn't the number of punches, but the context. The villain was defeated, and pleading for mercy, but the various Spidermen continued to beat him up purely in the name of fun (with one of them saying as much).

    I can't recall a moment in Batman:AA where Batman's violent actions weren't in response to a threat.

    I'm not saying either rating is right or wrong, but I can entirely see why the tone of that final SM scene didn't fit their 12 bracket.
  • SvennoJ #39 1 year ago

    Isn't it just good advertising to sell to teenagers with a 16 rating? That's how I selected movies to rent when I was 14, nobody enforced anything.
  • fizzyfish #40 1 year ago

    @HL706

    I guess, but then you'd get arguments about what is appropriate for a 14 year old that isn't appropriate for someone who is 12, resulting in the inevitable 13 rating. I don't believe anyone would take the system seriously if it genuinely implied that it perfectly understood all youths down to the year or even two. The brackets need to be far enough apart to account for variances in the maturity of individuals. (Yes, the upper tiers (16 and 18) are only two years apart, but they need to be weighed up against the typical ages of consent and legal adulthood).
  • FogHeart #41 1 year ago

    I personally come down on BBFC's side, for reasons made abundantly clear by RexRunti's example of Bayonetta, and the mentioned similarity to film classification certificates. The article applauds the fact that, by going with PEGI, games are treated differently from other media. This would imply that the BBFC were treating games like they treated films, and games were paying a consequence for it. Neither of which I see any evidence of - I was actually quite impressed with how the BBFC handled games ratings.

    PEGI seems far to straightjacketed by its tickbox scheme for me. The BBFC seems far more willing to take context into account.
  • Dannyboy1100 #42 1 year ago

    They won't be able to enforce it anyway... I remember when i was 14 i was asked for ID to buy fable. Since it was rated pegi 16 i just gave it to my dad, standing right next to me. He bought it and gave it back. All infront of the cashier... What's the point?

    I dont think they'll ever learn these ratings can't be enforced. They're only usable as guidance.
  • Farzlepot #43 1 year ago

    @RexRunti,

    "BAYONETTA is a fantasy action adventure game in which the player controls a witch fighting an array of creatures.

    The game was classified '15' for strong language and bloody violence. At '15', the BBFC's Guidelines state that 'violence may be strong but may not dwell on the infliction of pain or injury'. In BAYONETTA, the bloody violence is frequent and consists of clouds of blood, arterial spurts and flying limbs during combat, as well as 'torture' moves in which Bayonetta puts her enemies on a rack, into a spiked cabinet and so on. Such sequences are not presented in a realistic manner - one involves pulling a female monster to a rack and tightening a chain - with resulting breast jiggling - before the victim explodes in a puff of blood and body parts. Throughout the game, Bayonetta's enemies are fantastical rather than realistic in appearance, and the levels are mostly set within a clearly unrealistic universe. There is no opportunity to further damage bodies post-mortem, and none of the corpses stay in the environment for more than a few seconds.

    At '15', the BBFC's Guidelines state that 'there may be frequent use of strong language'. The language in the game occurs during the 'cut scenes', and there are over fifteen uses during the normal course of the game.

    The game also contains some moderate sex references, with numerous camera angles focusing on the female characters' bodies and costumes throughout."

    I actually thought you were making that up for a few minutes, but then I looked it up on their website and yep, that's how they described it.

    I'd have to agree with you - the BBFC actually know what they're censoring.
  • arcam #44 1 year ago

    i just gave it to my dad, standing right next to me. He bought it and gave it back. All infront of the cashier... What's the point?

    That's how it should be. If your Dad bought it for you that means that your Dad has the ultimate decision about what you play, and parents are much more qualified to decide what their children should watch/play than governments or industry regulators.
  • gruntboy #45 1 year ago

    Good debate on here. I actually feel slightly ashamed to pitch in with this...

    "Zamo" you say? I always wondered what happened to him after Grange Hill.

    /gets coat
    /leaves
  • elmoape #46 1 year ago

    So how about a ratings system that just states "kids," "teenagers," "young adults," "adults only" work, as simply a guidance system for parents?
  • KDR_11k #47 1 year ago

    BTW, the USK DOES play the games it reviews and if that's too hard they demand cheat codes and stuff.
  • DadsDinner #48 1 year ago

    The problem with PEGI is that it doesn't actually seem to be much help when it comes to deciding what I should allow my children to play. The ratings sometimes almost seem to have been pulled from a hat at random: Super Smash Bros Brawl 12+, Trials HD 3+, Little King's Story 7+, Ratchet & Clank 7+, MotorStorm 12+, GI Joe (Wii) 16+. Is Super Smash Bros really much worse than Tom & Jerry (rated U by the BBFC)? GI Joe meanwhile really is kids' stuff compared with the bloody revenge of Quantum of Solace on DVD (rated 12 by the BBFC). On the other hand, even my wife gets disturbed by the constant neck snapping in Trials HD when I'm playing - I wouldn't want my six-year-old around...

    I'm sure each of the ratings can be justified somehow but wouldn't it be better to have a system which tallied better with UK parents' expectations?
  • deano2099 #49 1 year ago

    Honestly the best solution is to have publishers include on the disc a short, five-minute video showcasing the nastiest parts of the game. Something parents can watch before letting loose their kids. It's one thing to watch a film/TV show before or with your kid, but it's another to expect parents to slog through 60 hours of RPGs just in case there's something bad at the end.

    The power should lie with the parent, it just needs to be made easier.
  • MintagedVortex #50 1 year ago

    A good example of this case?

    Halo Wars.
  • Feanor #51 1 year ago

    That Bayonetta comparison is very informative.
  • Sonic_D #52 1 year ago

    Zamo says "Just say no!" to strong, bloody violence in 12 rated games.
  • silversun #53 1 year ago

    I work in retail but have not had any guidence on the change that will happen , i know it too soon for that but will retailers realise the change to pegi , just for a note it will be like the bbfc ones but legal when change comes in right?
    I think the bbfc ones are alot clearer , the labels they use i mean , a big round red 18 is really clear opposed to what pegi uses.
    If pegi is the main source for ratings in future i hope they change there labels to something similar to what bbfc uses.

    Also yes some games are stupidly rated lower, when they should rated higher or vice versa.
    As long as games dont start getting ban from sale because they a little bit contriversal then i think all will be ok.
  • DeJonz #54 1 year ago

    To people lauding 'the Bayonetta comparison'...Just because PEGI doesn't write up or publish a large report on a certain game's rating, doesn't mean they don't play it, know what they're talking about or are unwilling to explain on what a certain game is rated. You can always send emails if you have questions or remarks. I've heard stories about games being re-rated because someone pointed out a particular scene in the game. The 'Bayonette comparison' says nothing about the rating system's worth.
  • Kostas #55 1 year ago

    Good thing i am a gamer myself and therefore i will not this PEGI stuff to know which game is suited for my kids in case they want something from me. Not that i am a parent of course....yet....6 months to go.
  • RexRunti #56 1 year ago

    @DeJonz actually PEGI openly admit they don't play the game (read the article). Their process can be found here.

    For comparison the BBFC's process is here.
  • DrStrangelove #57 1 year ago

    I wish we had PEGI rating in Germany. Soviet propaganda was permissive compared to German video game censorship. Here, the 16+ rating is reserved for Kinectimals and Kirby. Violence is completely banned, so developers have to severely mutilate their games, replace enemies with robots, guns with dustbusters and blood with rainbows. After doing so, they may be so lucky as to get an 18+ rating.

    Stalin would have been alienated by such repression.
  • Farzlepot #58 1 year ago

    As Rex points out, PEGI make no bones about it - they don't play the games, and they don't hide that fact. So there truly is no context, nor personal experience with the subject matter of any kind.

    Beyond a checklist. Filled out by the people trying to sell a game to as many people as possible.

    I'm not sure that some games can be properly rated based on something as sterile as a checklist. Won't somebody please think of the children?
  • TheDarkFurie #59 1 year ago

    And is it fair that one child can play a game on their Wii, even if that game is Iron Man 2, while their friend has to wait four years just because their console has enough processing power to remember where enemies have fallen?

    Interesting. Kids are old enough to kill enemies but not to be faced with the consequences of their actions...
  • ProfDrMorph #60 1 year ago

    It saddens me a little that nobody here really understands the German child protection laws (and I'm surely not the only German reading this article and posting here). While I do agree that Germany's laws are completely over the top (and one of the reasons I hate being German) games like Gears of War may be legally sold/bought here! It's 'just' that there are so many restrictions on selling those games (e.g. minors may not enter stores selling those games etc.) and that many people just don't know that those games are available. This in turn has led to a situation in which many stores don't even bother to try to sell them anymore. Basically German laws (combined with missing education about the laws' actual meanings/effects) are economic censorship.

    BTW: a list of games that are ACTUALLY banned can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ban... . And even those games may be legally bought in other countries (possession is legal as is buying. Just selling is illegal).

    Oh and originally I wanted to mentioned what others did before me: from the point of view of a German PEGI is just fine/an improvement. :)
  • Embattle #61 1 year ago

    Parents take no real notice, once saw one buy a GTA game for her son who was about 12.
  • CrispyXUK64 #62 1 year ago

    PEGI's ratings make parental controls almost completely useless.
  • bivith #63 1 year ago

    The Sonic Mega Collection is a 12+. What's that all about?
  • Mister-Wario #64 1 year ago

    The Dark Knight is a 12? I didn't know that.

    "Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands, for instance, were rated 16 for 360 and PS3 players - but 12 for Wii owners, despite being virtually identical".

    Weren't these two games completely different in design? The Wii version, from what I've seen in comparison to the HD versions, is brighter and the enemies are more fantastical in appearance. Plus there's a big focus on platforming over combat.
  • TackyCheeba #65 1 year ago

    Do they really think it matters., here in the UK ..kids will get the games they want, from whatever source they can.
    Slapping higher restrictions on the box isn't going to change that, its all down to the parents, and most will cave in just to shut them up.
  • GI-Joel #66 1 year ago

    Not tough enough....
    All the mouthy underage pricks trash talking shit while i'm trying to enjoy an ADULT gaming session with gentlemen and a very small minority of females ;)
  • snowdog #67 1 year ago

    The BBFC completely ruined one of the best games released this gen - Manhunt 2 on the Wii. Thankfully using a little hackery it's possible to play the game uncut. NGamer gave the uncut SKU a 94% review score for good reason, it's excellent.