Battlefield 3 dev calls competition "lazy"

By Fred Dutton Published 11 March, 2011

DICE taking potshots at Call of Duty?

Battlefield 3 developer DICE has fired off a few rounds at its competitors, accusing other military shooters of recycling the same old formula.

"Our competitors are getting lazy," DICE general manager Karl-Magnus Troedsson told Official PlayStation Magazine.

"They're using the same engine, the same recipe for building a game. At some point you need to take that leap. I haven't seen them take that leap since a long time ago.

"We are doing that now," he insisted. "They had better watch out. We are coming for them."

Who on earth could he be referring to? It's a wild shot in the dark, but considering all of publisher EA's recent bluster about going head to head with Call of Duty, one obvious target springs to mind.

"Our competitors keep building very, very high tempo games," he added. "We want to tell a story with more drama curves. It's not about pumping round after round for six hours."

Cast your eyes over Al Bickham's recent hands-on preview for more on how DICE's game is shaping up.

Picture of Fred.

About Fred Dutton

Fred Dutton is Eurogamer's US news editor, based in Washington DC.

Read more articles from Fred by visiting the Fred Dutton archive page.

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Comments (58) Latest comment 1 year ago

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  • karooo #1 1 year ago

    No its obvious its Crytek. Why would they take potshots at Call of Duty when Blops did 20 million?
    Edited by karooo at 11/03/11 @ 23:48

  • Mister-Wario #2 1 year ago

    "It's not about pumping round after round for six hours".

    The fact that Black Ops is the fastest-selling game in the US suggests otherwise, sadly.

  • inutaihanyou #3 1 year ago

    Why should i have to hear from your PR team Dice, when you've already admitted that your just trying to copy what they're doing? You should have never said that, because your lowering yourself to Activision's standard practices now. Release the game and then we'll talk.

    But yeah, Treyarch is lazy, being modders and all instead of actual developers, and with IW a shell of its former self, the COD wing of Activision is unlikely to change.

  • RoaringPanda #4 1 year ago

    Oh no he DIDN'T

    *finger snapping*

  • customfirmware #5 1 year ago

    treyarch their looking at you lol. but dice just please just shut up, i love bc2 and i know you lot are gonna do a good job on battlefield 3 just let the game and us gamers do the talking for you. blops same old dirty engine needs servicing.

  • sfp_noodle #6 1 year ago

    In all fairness, out of the supposed "top" FPS devs, Treyarch are the laziest. If not lazy, then utterly incompetent. The old Infinite Ward at least knew how to evolve a genre with COD4 and then actually provide expert tweaks to the game ala Modern Warfare 2. Black Ops is an expansion pack in all but name and it's severely broken at that.

    But DICE, don't forget that you actually designed the MP for mehfest Medal Of Honor which was a poor COD clone and has been pretty much abandoned online since Blops was released. It was a rushed and lazy game. I keep faith in you though since Bad Company 2 is superb and Battlefield 3 looks very promising. Just don't mouth off so inadvertently next time eh?

  • sfp_noodle #7 1 year ago

    "It's not about pumping round after round for six hours."

    I'll remember those words very well DICE. If your campaign is even 1 second below 6 hours on Normal difficulty then all you've prouved is that your all mouth no action. C'mon, give us an 8 hour campaign. Surprise us. Delight us.

  • dsmx #8 1 year ago

    This coming from a company that has never been able to release a game that works properly at launch?

  • Machiavellian #9 1 year ago

    It's easy to call Treyarch lazy but in reality they are not. The problem that a company like Treyarch has is that its not in their best interest to change Call of Duty to much. The sells speaks for themselves and no matter how much the vocal minority will hate, the franchise continue to increase sales. The fact is that no one in the FPS industry has pushed the COD franchise to go outside of it's confort zone.

    The fact that the COD franchise has not really gone from it's by the numbers approach is more a reflextion of the competition then the developers of the series. Just because one group put in all these wisbang features doesn't make them innovative if they cannot hit their target market correctly.

    Developers always lose me when they concentrate on another developer than worrying about their own game. COD hits it's market right and trying to do the same thing only lessen the competition efforts. EA and their PR people should speak with their game than their mouth.

  • coolbritannia #10 1 year ago

    Agrees wholeheartedly with DICE. Expects to get negged to oblivion.

  • MaliceMajorE15 #11 1 year ago

    dem fighting words

  • ZizouFC #12 1 year ago

    "It's not about pumping round after round for six hours."

    It is for me, if you know what I mean?

    AMIRITE?

    /runs

  • orangpelupa #13 1 year ago

    ^^ the spamer should sell body bags....
    fit with war themed game

  • gjgjg #14 1 year ago

    This kind of slagging cheapens your position EA/Dice, and feels like sad attention seeking (COD player's attention) - let your better quality game do the talking.

    The COD formula is selling in increasing amounts, so why would they change? It's what their fans want. The digs that COD get are actually quite lasy in fact, like a george bush joke.

    Oh and MOH was clearly an attempt at making some MW market go your way, and without COD, BC probably wouldnt be what it is. Don't get me wrong, BC series is better imo, but lets face it, the COD effect is clear in driving DICE to make a better game and in other ways too. Every one in the industry is benefiting from the sucess of COD, and its pretty annoying to see people constantly taking lasy swipes at it.

  • paketep #15 1 year ago

    Yeah. The company that won't give all DLC to PC because it's oh so hard, support LAN or release dedicated server files calling lazy the competition.

    And the others keep doing the same constantly, right, DICE?. Not like you, nooooo. You're a fucking well of originality.

    Amazing.

  • ubergine #16 1 year ago

    Just started Bad Company 2 and it's amazing, and I pretty much detest military shooters, never finished Modern Warfare and never bought any other CoD. The way BBC2 multiplayer is set up to let you drop into the middle of a match and then never, ever leave again is both awesome and insidious.

    Very interested to see what the new engine for Battlefield 3 can bring out of the 360.

  • davisorle #17 1 year ago

    Post deleted at 15:13:14 09-05-2012

  • TheGuvernor #18 1 year ago


    Screw the pot shots - launch a sodding missile!
    I think the whole military fps publishing, biatching, mud slinging piss fest of present is almost as entertaining as the games!
    Keep it up!

  • hiddenranbir #19 1 year ago

    Just shut up and make the game, all this talk feels like it will backfire. Wait until you make the money, sheesh.


    "It's not about pumping round after round for six hours."

    Woah dude, this is EXACTLY why we play Battlefield. Not some generic Team USA narrative in SP.
    Edited by hiddenranbir at 12/03/11 @ 04:16

  • ruddiger7 #20 1 year ago

    Well dice have a good point. Cod feels the same since modern warfare 1 and they never upgrade their system, their netcoding on ps3 is shit too. Atleast dice put effort into their games, bad company 2 was fantastic and 3 looks like itll be much better.

  • Raiten #21 1 year ago

    @gjgjgj, yeah but if it's about cod players they're the LEAST intterested about game quality, all they care is about having same replica multiplayer everything beyond that they've no idea or intterest about.
    BC influenced by CoD? you do know it was dices attempt to get their game series on consoles and that it's development started before CoD4 was hinted for release, and that Dice had allready done modern war themed game long before CoD 4 came about?
    The upcoming Battlefield 3 isn't even compeating or trying to compeat with CoD, if it's competing for something, it is attempting to best Battlefield 2 and that's what everyone is hoping for.

    You're trying to make CoD series sound like it's some messiah of "realistic" shooters, which it isn't, it never could be. Why? because it's so far only had during it's entire lifetime 2 good games, cod 2 and cod4 it's had mostly poor quality releases making it highly inconsistant series regarding quality. Right now the only influence it has is the name it created for current gen console gamers with CoD4 and marketing, especialy marketing. So Dice overall is right in calling their competition lazy, CoD is a series that has barely evolved anywhere, it gets a jump in quality once after longer period of time, but recieves higher drop in quality faster than any other game series because the series hardly ever tries to improve on anything.

  • beastmaster #22 1 year ago

    Great games do not sell themselves. Ico, SOTC, Bayonetta, Okami...

    The devs/publisher need their mouthpieces to generate publicity. A huge advertising budget would help too.

  • Xboxfanuk #23 1 year ago

    Battlefield 2 on the PC was amazing and kept my attention far longer then COD 4. But thing is Battlefield so far has not spent the kind of marketing money and built clan support like COD. And that is where they are weak IMO. With Battlefield 3 I hope they really build in community elements and encourage people to squad up and not make it a frantic free for all like so many Battlefield matches tend to be.

  • Puriel #24 1 year ago

    quickly hide in this superstrong undestructable wooden shed someones on a killstreak

  • des #25 1 year ago

    Talk is lazy.

  • coastal #26 1 year ago

    It's not polite what he's saying but then he's in a position where his paymasters reward little media stunts like this. He's got a valid point. COD does drive the point of repeat, kill, die, rinse and it's good to hear that Dice are talking about the drama curves being a better game. So he's in charge of what he thinks is a better game but it's selling, what, one sixth of COD? No wonder he wants to make the odd comment like this. Having the classier, better product doesn't automatically translate into the most sales.

  • joelstinton #27 1 year ago

    @Machiavellian

    100% spot on. Every modern warfare based fps bar battlefield is a COD clone by the numbers. Every game wants a part of COD pie chart. Even Killzone was tweaked to feel like COD in how it plays, and how its story was delivered.

    But yeah , dice, just focus on yourself, make something different and what you want to make, you already have the mantlepiece as the game to go to if you don't like, or fed up with COD, that isn't bad at all, people know about your games, people will eventually will move ship.

    To be honest, i'm quite happy with having Battlefield and COD in my collection , both other something unique, and both are the best in there class. Even if the COD series hasn't really evolved that much.
    Edited by joelstinton at 12/03/11 @ 16:22

  • AdamAsunder #28 1 year ago

    So how about fixing the 'You win/You lose' glitch on Bad Company 2 that's been there since the games release last Spring?

    Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

  • CaptainKid #29 1 year ago

    Blablabla. I'm not only boycotting EA for obvious reasons, also DICE.

    Bought several Battlefield games;
    -Bought the BF42 map pack expansion. (yes EA invented paying for maps) Servers were empty
    -Bought Battlefield Vietnam. Horrible balanced. (remember the M60)
    -Bought BF2142, for the love of god couldn't find out how to activate the expansion (EA store, EA download manager aaaargh)
    -Played BFheroes. They fucked that up splendidly, promising a free to play game but you really need to pay to have fun and a chance of winning.

    Plus a laggy menu and server browser on ALL their games.
    All games are released with crappy netcode, bugs and balance issues which makes you wonder if they actually play test (I'm sure they don't; M60 in BFVietnam), some serious balance issues never even get patched.

    Edited by CaptainKid at 12/03/11 @ 12:16

  • azic #30 1 year ago

    And dice of course don't rehash anything, completely original every release.

    What is it with all these game devs taking pot shots at each other.

  • dfooster #31 1 year ago

    Never liked call of duty. They appeal to testosterone fuelled teenage boys who do just want to fire round after round for 6 hours. Also It's too heavily stacked towards multiplayer, and the price of their games are not acceptable especially for such a short and disappointing single player campaign.

    I'm hoping battlefield 3 will offer a more sophisticated shooter experience.

  • SpaceMonkey77 #32 1 year ago

    BBC2 is the better overall game than CoD, IMO. The inclusion of destructable environments and controlable vehicles, raises the stakes than CoD has yet to match. This stuff also evens the playing field, which means everyone can find a cormfortable means of fun play and progression. Excellent large maps and better chances of survival.

    Over in CoD, who ever has kill based perks wins, and I feel this tips the balance of the game one way too much. If you can't get such kill streaks (the most i get is three streak), you are kind of screwed. CoD needs to evolve more, and I especially hate how CoD7 failed to build upon MW2's cool special ops mode.

    B3 looks awesome, and will build on BBC2 nicely. I just hope that they also get the story and characters right too. Nice one, DICE.

  • Zaiz #33 1 year ago

    o_o On the subject of Dice, their patcher uses up 60% of my PC's processing power. 60%! Oh and the server browser is total shit.

    (ie probably not going to get Battlefield 3)

  • Prodigy_BE #34 1 year ago

    The thing is, he's right.

    Yes, COD sells more now, but if Activision does not allow it's devs to tinker with the concept, it will die. Just like Tony Hawk and Guitar Hero. Believe me, the EA guys know. They've been there.

  • SavageEvil #35 1 year ago

    CoD games are basically for the arrogant, if you listen to how people berate one another or gloat when they win, and most battles are lopsided, one guys has like twice the amount of kills as the second place guy on his team. For what it is, it is fun at times as long as someone isn't lagging and dragging the game down. CoD will always be like it is because it is easy to pick up and play. BF games are not easy to pick up and play, they require you to at least understand tactics in order to get satisfaction out of it.

    BF3 looks like a step in the right direction, larger character models and higher level of realism. Lets hope that LMG make sense, I don't want to see a LMG being weaker than an assault rifle, LMG should be quite deadly at medium range, but cumbersome to lug around. Also should be pretty inaccurate when firing when mobile, but I doubt that they would leave those guns true to life as it would be pretty easy to tear people apart using them firing short bursts rather than opening them up and mowing down trees.

    Note about Killzone 3, the pace was changed because of critics who complained that the weight behind the characters movements were a hinderance or something to that effect. I liked it as it felt different from CoD, slower and more deliberate. Not sure why everyone wants every shooter to play like CoD, these guys should keep their own identity, BF identity is team based, large maps and vehicle warfare. CoD is foot soldier, high paced run and gun warfare. Killzone is futuristic, but still grounded in realistic warfare as you still shoot bullets like Halo, lol.

    DICE PR is out to draw attention to their game, but it's not far from the truth. The last 3 CoD games are carbon copies of MW, same engine, same gameplay, different coat of paint and some tweaks here or there. The constant yearly release is what's making it seem like a cut and print job.

  • ghiest #36 1 year ago

    Sorry but the Battlefield games are all the damn same too, just varying forms of vehicles and maps. Capture the points and protect them till it ticks down, or worse yet ... set some bombs.

    That to me is lazy 'as well', I'm far from a CoD fanboi (actually prefer bfbc2 over black ops) but calling someone else lazy for doing the exact same thing you are is quite ironic.

  • evilrobot #37 1 year ago

    Post deleted at 22:12:53 08-05-2012

  • icelt #38 1 year ago

    Suppose I might be in the minority but I appreciate BOTH Bad Company 2 and Black Ops. As much as the two games share, duh "realistic-ish" FPS, there are very different play online experiences. So although I am very much for evolution and growth of the genre I see no reason to discredit or disrespect the mostly excellent play experience that Black Ops is.

    Very much looking forward to what B3 will have to offer and in the meantime will very much enjoy what BO does have to offer.

  • LeoNatan #39 1 year ago

    And what risks are you taking, lazy asses DICE? Will BF3 have a campaign dissimilar in linearity to retarded COD campaigns? Will BF3 have modding tools and real dedicated server tools? Of course not.

    And how sad is it that modding tools and dedicated server tools are considered impossible risks in 2011. F`ck you. I will not buy your crap.

  • TheGuvernor #40 1 year ago

    I've played both series on PC for years so comments like:
    'CoD games are basically for the arrogant' are frickin' ridiculous.

    Been playing a lot of BLOPS - which I actually thought was a strong title - and found other players usually normal & polite, basically 'gg' comments all around.

    I prefer the battlefield series but find the arguing, comments, & puerile humour far more in abundance on BFBC2.

    I think they are 2 diff games - CoD harks back to twitch shooters like Quake Arena, UT etc but with a modern military skin.
    Battlefield is genuinely a team oriented, tactical multiplayer exp.
    And it was Battlefield that first came up with unlock rewards as far as I remember. But I am getting old!

  • dsmx #41 1 year ago

    As far as I'm aware Bf2 was the first shooter to give you unlockable weapons and a central server that tracked all your game stats. Sadly it also marked a dark chapter in EA's existence where it was being an arse with supporting games properly.

  • Olemak #42 1 year ago

    I think he is talking about cocktivision, not Treyarch, who are just Bobby's bitches anyway.

  • UkHardcore23 #43 1 year ago

    No doubt the COD devs are getting lazy however they nailed the gameplay years ago (getting stale now) and DICE are still lagging behind in this department, DICE seem to big themselves up and then always come out with games that are good but not great.

    They would be better concentrating on their own games and getting the gameplay spot on before slagging the competition.
    Edited by UkHardcore23 at 12/03/11 @ 23:32

  • FenderMaster #44 1 year ago

    I always preferred BF because it was less scripted, more open ended in the way you go about achieving your goals. The excellent frostbite engine didn't hurt at all either... A more scripted, story focused BF is slightly worrying, but as long as it continues to emphasise teamwork and open ended strategies, the game can to all the smack talking for itself, if any franchise could (and should) dethrone CoD, it's BF.

  • SavageEvil #45 1 year ago

    @Guvenor, Have you played MW, MW WaW and BLoPs? It's basically filled with teenage and even younger kids screaming and yelling all sorts of erratic nonsense, racial slurs and other types of nonsense. As much as I have BFBC2, you'd be lucky to find young teens playing BFBC2 because of the learning curve. It's harder for them run around "owning" everyone and complete lack of killstreaks make BFBC2 a very different game from CoD games. It's not uncommon to find great and polite players on CoD games, but it's far and in between. From my experience I have found that you find more annoying yelling and disgusting speech on CoD than I have ever on BFBC2. People don't talk as much on BFBC2 to begin with, unless someone asks what's the objective and they squad up and work together. CoD, people either are with their mics off and that's only at late night, but anytime between 3-9pm you can't get these children to shut up always talking about everything and anything. CoD tends to have anger within battles because of biggest pain, campers who sit and wait to build kill streaks. You must be playing in the late evening or something on CoD, that's about the only way you can avoid the foul mouthed young teens.

    I don't expect or want BF3 to dethrone CoD, we need CoD. We need to have something different to play, CoD just needs to not be shipped every year and looks like an update of the last game. Will Activision listen, probably not as the casual market fuel Activision's direction. Hope something changes so a great franchise doesn't get destroyed by greed.

  • ToAks #46 1 year ago

    don't worry DICE/*EA, every sane gamer person in the world know that Activision will fuck up the COD franchise in the future like they have done with Spyro,Crash Bandiscoot,Guitar Hero and tony hawk among many others.

    So... just be ready with a exellent game when that happens and you will have a real seller.

  • Silvz #47 1 year ago

    They're just stating the obvious. Very true...

  • dsmx #48 1 year ago

    I hope to god the single player just drops you in a city and says this is your objective, go about it however you want.

  • SpaceMonkey77 #49 1 year ago

    I think DICE may be taking more influence from Ubisoft's Ghost Recon, with BF3, which is a good thing IMO. Ghost Recon is an oft ignored series, with a very awesome tactical approach to warfare. GRAW also was doing horde type multiplayer modes, long before Gears of War or Halo.

  • king26 #50 1 year ago

    Not to bothered about sales, as long as the COD k/d ratio idiots stay well away from B3 I'm happy. Unfortunately there is loads of these idiots ruining Killzone 3 for me right now

  • bratmandu #51 1 year ago

    Thank Spaghetti Monster there's still devs out there who think this way and are willing to push the limits. BF3 is going to rock bells.

  • agent55 #52 1 year ago

    CoD games are like the Michael Bay films of the game world; they draw the mindless masses, but they don't make you think... they're miles from artful, nuanced or thoughtfully paced. Thank the FPS gods that there are devs like DICE that not only have the brains to concoct war games like BC2, but actually have the skill to pull it off. It took me all of 10 minutes to realize CoD is a meathead's FPS, most disappointing $60 I've ever spent.

  • TheGuvernor #53 1 year ago

    @SavageEvil, m8 - I honestly haven't had those problems. I play on PC though.
    Also, refused to buy MW2 as Infin/Acti sold out on their loyal PC fan base.
    Played a lot of BLOPS since Xmas, on a few fav servers with good admins I guess.
    I loved the BLOPS cold war setting as I'm an old git & my dad was military during this period.
    Played some BFBC2 this week & while the game is awesome lots of bitching & insulting going around - just my observation.
    Not denying yours or the fact that CoD has been hijacked by console kiddies & pumped out by Kotik & his unimaginative minions.

  • Bander #54 1 year ago

    "And dice of course don't rehash anything, completely original every release."

    DICE made Mirror's Edge. They have certainly proven that a first person action game doesn't have to be about continuous gunplay.

  • HeNiCiDe1988 #55 1 year ago

    he is right but unforunately blops has made a billion. But no developers want to risk breaking the mould because Blops and MW have been so successfully thus they want to stick to it and will only be supported by publishers because it will make money, unfortunately it doesnt just fall on the developers but the consumers now.

  • drumbaby #56 1 year ago

    Says the company who are on the third iteration of the same pigging game.

  • JesseDeya #57 1 year ago

    "Says the company who are on the third iteration of the same pigging game."

    Thus proving you know nothing about the BF franchise.

    BF games still "feel" like BF, which is a good thing because it's a very unique feel and has been since they first released BF1942. What they have done though, is innovate several times along the way, and they've upgraded their engine either partially or completely almost every time. The Bad Company series for instance, introduced destruction which was a massive game changer.

    What DICE are saying here - accurately mind you - is that CoD hasn't changed it's look/engine in the last 4 releases nor has it brought anything new to the table what-so-ever. What they're ALSO saying is that with BF3 they ARE going to bring a new engine, new look, new features. It's a cannon shot across the bow to say to the CoD devs (and obviously everyone else in the process), gamers are going to notice if you don't step it up next time - because we HAVE.

    From what I've seen of BF3, the very last thing you could accuse it of is being a re-skin. The same cannot be said for MW2, WAW or BLOPS.

  • tankboi #58 1 year ago

    "Our competitors keep building very, very high tempo games," he added. "We want to tell a story with more drama curves. It's not about pumping round after round for six hours."

    It sounds like they are paying more attention to Project Reality gameplay than I first thought. If this turns out to be true, then massive kudos to you Dice for being brave and saving me from these stale run and gun shooters.

    Remember, scary films are only scary until you have seen the monster. Give us some tension! :)