Dark Souls harder than Demon's Souls

By Robert Purchese Published 1 February, 2011

Difficulty "greatly increased".

PS3 action RPG Demon's Souls was infamous for - and defined by - being bastard hard. Bravely, developer From Software has decided to make PS3 and Xbox 360 successor Dark Souls (formerly codenamed Project Dark) even harder.

"The difficulty has been increased greatly over Demon's Souls," wrote a preview from Japanese mega-mag Famitsu, digested by Andriasang.

The biggest change will be to exploration. Maps will be seamlessly connected by waypoints rather than conjoined by a central shrine hub. Game director Hidetaka Miyazaki wants reaching the horizon to be an attainable, natural goal.

Dark Souls may also use a less brooding colour palette, as there's no direct link to the story or setting of Demon's Souls.

Another huge change will be the removal of jobs - character classes. Miyazaki wants rid of any systems that impair play styles, although trade-offs presumably exist to prevent heroes becoming impervious tin-canned Gandalfs.

The weapons of Dark Souls are described as more manoeuvrable, and there will be a greater variety of spells and magic items to use.

As to how the celebrated online component will evolve, Miyazaki won't yet say. A Demon's Souls-style approach - whereby you can help or hinder people as a good or bad spirit in their world - will return. You'll also be able to call for help when really in a pickle.

Soul Tendency, a kind of world karma system, will not return. That's because From Software doesn't want to create and maintain central online servers for Dark Souls.

Demon's Souls arrived in Europe last summer, riding a wave of critical and cult success all the way from Japan. In short, Demon's Souls is the most refreshing action RPG of its age; joyous and exhilarating because it is brutal and frustrating. In a world where publishers avoid risk in order to secure a return on their investments, Demon's Souls shines like a great beacon of hope.

That's why Eurogamer smacked a slobbery 9/10 kiss right on on its chops, concluding: "Demon's Souls is absolutely compelling; dark, detailed, unforgiving, creatively cruel. It gets under your skin and becomes a personal obsession, daring you to probe further into its worlds, fall for more of its traps and overcome more of its impossible challenges; it slaps you in the face with your own incompetence and dares you to overcome it."

So entranced by this leftfield success were we that we tracked Hidetaka Miyazaki down for a long chat about where on earth the idea for Demon's Souls came from.

Eurogamer plays the first 15 minutes of Demon's Souls.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (73) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Buztafen #1 1 year ago

    This news is so good i actually yelped a little in my seat. \o/

  • figgis #2 1 year ago

    Hopefully this will rebalance Magic to stop it being easy mode.

  • HermitArcader #3 1 year ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • customfirmware #4 1 year ago

    Yeah right. Demon souls was hard but forgiving in the sense that you take your bloody time and don't rush into fights like your playing god of war( pun intended).
    Edited by customfirmware at 01/02/11 @ 10:25

  • Machetazo #5 1 year ago

    I hope to goodness that we don't. Seriously.

  • Stop-gap #6 1 year ago

    Interesting. If it's going to honestly be as bastard hard as they are claiming, then I hope boss fights are out. I think DS was hard enough on average.

  • menage #7 1 year ago

    I loved Demon's Souls, but I had a small feeling that all these things coming together was kinda a happy accidnt for them as well. making it harder doesn't make it better, t was hard enough.

    Just make it just as engrossing, not off putting.

  • Ged42 #8 1 year ago

    "Tin Canned Gandalfs"

    Sounds like a good folk band name.

  • Vanmunt #9 1 year ago

    Demons Souls wasn't really that hard, just very unforgiving.. Easily one of the best games this gen.

  • MasterNameless #10 1 year ago

    Oh my god, very pleased it's on 360 this time too, so my non-PS3 friends can experience such a phenomenal game - in which after Demons Souls, I have faith in From Software that it will be, despite some turkeys in the past. :D

  • PixelPirate #11 1 year ago

    best news this year.

    short of them saying its done of course.

    cant wait, probably want this more than last guardian

  • smithdown #12 1 year ago

    Difficulty is "greatly increased"? Holy cow. I might have to line my games room with soft padding and wrap my controller in bubble wrap to avoid any incidents.
    Any ideas when we can expect this to be released?

  • BabyJesus #13 1 year ago

    That reminds me still not finished the first although I don't remember it being THAT hard aslong as you are patient and pick your fights wisely.

  • MasterNameless #14 1 year ago

    "Demons Souls wasn't really that hard, just very unforgiving.. Easily one of the best games this gen."

    Absolutely, this is the case. Maybe it was hard to get your head round in the beginning, but wasn't so bad once you got used to it, and had good stats and weapons. Unforgiving though, it was all the way through, from the very beginning to the very end.

  • AllenSpawn #15 1 year ago

    @vanmunt
    Agreed. Tip- toeing round the worlds with a shield up, and knowing your enemy and this game wasn't that hard. Just bastard unforgiving of mistakes. Oh , and try one of the best games ever- not just this gen!

    My concern, is that after zero expectation of the first, this one is gonna be hyped to death, with expectation through the roof, and setting itself up for a fall.
    Please be the second coming!


  • parablax #16 1 year ago

    Eeeek - as a magic user I still found it extremely tough - I'd better start practising using a melee character in preparation for this.

  • dwalker109 #17 1 year ago

    Yes, yes yes yes, yes yes. I am more excited by this than anything else at the moment. And there is a lot of exciting stuff happening.

  • ZuluHero #18 1 year ago

    I thought the difficulty of Demons Souls was perfectly pitched. And even though it was unforgiving, it rewarded you frequently to make you feel like you were making progress. Finding a shortcut, a more powerful weapon, some herbs, a vendor, even learning to outwit a new opponent so you can take him down quicker and flawlessly the next time you met.

    My GOTY 2010.

    While I really am looking forward to another Demon's Souls like experience in Dark Souls, my first reaction to this news was shock and maybe a bit of annoyance, after all DS was plenty hard enough. But the headline is a tad misleading! After reading the article it seems like the same philosophies as I mentioned above are still being maintained, making the experience about those small victories that eventually help fill in the bigger picture.

    Let's hope we see this sooner rather than later! :)

  • apoc_reg #19 1 year ago

    After Demon Souls they can do whateverr they like and i'll come for the ride.

    Greatest game since slice bread was cool

  • jstar #20 1 year ago

    I am more excited about this game than any other. Demon Souls was exceptional on every level. It had more atmosphere packed into 5 minutes than Mass Effect managed after hours and hours of trite vacuous conversations with 1 dimensional characters.

  • RedSparrows #21 1 year ago

    so happy this is on 360 too!

  • nooneyouknow #22 1 year ago

    In all honesty, I never really got on with Demon's Souls... I still managed to put in a fair few hours and have sang it's praises to anyone that will listen!
    It was a tough game and as you've all said, it's all about learning and patience. As long as the increased difficulty doesn't come from cheap, instant deaths then I'm sure to be getting it.

  • MasterNameless #23 1 year ago

    Comparing Mass Effect to Demon's Souls is pretty weak. They are very different types of games. Demon's Souls was possibly the best game ever, granted - but Mass Effect was pretty damn awesome for what it did too.

    Except for the fact they are both RPG's, they couldn't be more different.

  • Bleedingplums #24 1 year ago

    I would literally sell all my children into prostitution to get my hands on this game

  • ucankurbaga #25 1 year ago

    yea yea its all good.. So when its coming out??

  • HurbleBurble #26 1 year ago

    JOY!

  • Puppaz #27 1 year ago

    I only found DS easy because I'm a dirty, cheating, glitch-exploiting bastard.
    I kind of hope they clear the glitches in this one though, give me no choice but to play harder (I have little willpower, I'm currently eating cake drinking beer, at 11am)

  • SeesThroughAll #28 1 year ago

    Great to hear that this will be multi-platform. More people will enjoy it.

  • slickster #29 1 year ago

    Your shield is your bestfriend. lol

  • AdamAsunder #30 1 year ago

    First time I've really seen Demon Souls in action. It looks pretty good and I'm glad it's going to be on 360 this time so I can play it.

    However.....Dark Souls doesn't sound as bad ass as Demon Souls to me. In fact it sounds like a prequel, you can't really get much darker than a demon's soul.

  • djed #31 1 year ago

    ugh, more magic.

  • PlugMonkey #32 1 year ago

    Cannot wait. Demon's Souls was the game of this generation thus far.

  • linea #33 1 year ago

    Huzzah! I just bought a PS3 specifically for Demon's Souls (OK, maybe The Last Guardian played a role too....) and am currently enjoying it hugely.

    I think the people above are right though- 'hard' isn't necessarily the right word for it. It's not hard in the sense of requiring superhuman gaming skills to get through- I'm a pretty average gamer and I'm not finding any problems getting through it. If anything the difficulty is pretty perfectly pitched. A little increase in difficulty for the sequel wouldn't go totally amiss I think.

    It does demand you play it with respect though, which is what makes it a refresing change. So many games have had the tension totally removed simply because you can save-spam your way through them.

  • actionfitz #34 1 year ago

    I really don't mind 'Bastard Hard'... what puts me off is the 'unbelievably Cuntishly Unforgiving' bit :(

    I agree that it wasn't so much hard as rewarding patience and caution - double thumbs up from me.

    Wouldn't kill them to add a check point or too though.
    Keep it hard, make harder even...
    will just say though, that I just don't like feeling like the makers have virtually reached through 'teh internets' and tea-bagged my poor twitching avatar when I get squished by a big nasty at the end of a section.
    :)
    Edited by actionfitz at 01/02/11 @ 11:30

  • Stomp224 #35 1 year ago

    Im so excited for this it hurts, but one of the best things about DS was the atmosphere The graphics and audio combined perfectly to make you want to curl into a ball and cry. I vividly remember about halfway through 3-1 just wanting to turn around and go back! I hope they can at least match that.

    Even the music was oppressive and scary (when heard in context at least, it sounds a bit odd on its own from the soundtrack CD)

  • butler` #36 1 year ago

    I don't really mind that they're making it harder, I'm just glad they aren't making it any easier.

  • tobsen #37 1 year ago

    Well, dear guys from From Software, then go **** yourselves. I deleted my DS character twenty hours into the game because I was so royally annoyed about a very unfair section that killed me twice in a row, and made me irreversibly miss out on one of the best armor kits in the game. The developers should be happy that they weren't around at my place because I would have thrown that controller right into their face. You can shove your upcoming game right up your *** this time.

  • MoGamer2006 #38 1 year ago

    Has this sequel been announced for a while? If so, how did I miss this!?!?!? So excited by this news - LOVED Demon's Souls, even if I gave me more pain than any other game in years.

  • flaming.carrot #39 1 year ago

    But this is not a sequel is it? I though Sony owned the Demons Souls IP not From Software?

  • butler` #40 1 year ago

    @tobsen

    i've no idea if your serious or not but that made me lol either way

    which section are you referring to? a5/swamp by any chance?

  • DiamondIce #41 1 year ago

    I like a challenge but at what point does it become a little too masochistic?

    Oh well, at least I can shake my imaginary huge e-knob around.

  • HisDudness #42 1 year ago

    yeah tobsen, tell us more. This isn't just a rage quit, it's a rage retire!

  • Ranger101 #43 1 year ago

    Xbox!!

  • Douche #44 1 year ago

    Any chance of Demon Souls getting ported across?

  • shadowmind #45 1 year ago

    I didn't think the game was hard, it was just very punishing.

  • dirtysteve #46 1 year ago

    Great news! However, the difficulty level may be the main talking point in the media, it would be a mistake to assume that jacking it up will equal a better game.

  • cherryuk #47 1 year ago

    The only reason Demon Souls is bastard hard is that if you die you have to do the whole level again, it's a very annoying inconvenience and the game should have come with difficulty levels. They will put people off buying this game.

    Bastard Hard is nothing compared to pixel perfect, Retro Hard!

  • Edz72 #48 1 year ago

    Demon Souls imo is easily the best game I've ever played (bold statement), but tbh this game doesn't sound anything like DS and for that reason I will wait for reviews.

    Sounds to me they are using the DS reference to cash in, we will see.

  • AnsemsApprentice #49 1 year ago

    So Ninja Gaiden III is going to be easier, and Dark Souls is going to be harder?

    Well, I know which developer's got it right there. Demon's Souls is one of the best games ever. Challenging, rewarding, engrossing, depressing, invigorating, exciting, and lots of other things ending in "ing". Brilliant soundtrack, memorable character design. I'm shocked this has been announced, I wasn't even ready! Can't wait.
    Edited by AnsemsApprentice at 01/02/11 @ 13:37

  • barkertron #50 1 year ago

    As long as I don't have to find any more chunks of fucking marrowstone I'll totally buy it

  • Kanjin #51 1 year ago

    I like my Xbox, but I want this game!

  • Atropos #52 1 year ago

    Still the only game this generation I find myself thinking about regularly, and every so often I have this strong urge to play through it again. The more I think about it, the more it's my GotG. Were there games with better story? Yup. Games with better graphics, or controls, or interfaces? Yesirree. Better design? Uh-huh. But better games? No. Not on your nellie.

    By the way, over at CTRl+ALT+DEL, the main character Ethan is trying to play through DS NG+ in one sitting. Very amusing :-)

  • MasterNameless #53 1 year ago

    I like how the comments section to Demon's Souls is unlike the comments section for any other game. It evokes a lot of emotion, and I don't think I've ever seen another game that has so many people saying it's the best game they've ever played!

    Even the usual "suspects" (I don't want to tarnish this thread with that dreaded word!) are silenced and humbled where Demon's Souls is concerned. It says a lot. :D

  • Zebula77 #54 1 year ago

    Ahhh, fuck. The reported difficulty is what kept me from buying the first one. I was secretly hoping they'd release a patch that let you decrease the difficulty (yes, I'm a pussy but I absolutely HATE struggling with games lol)

    Oh, well - will have to wait for the review in any case.

  • HermitArcader #55 1 year ago

    Post deleted at 09:17:39 22-12-2011

  • Acrid #56 1 year ago

    Fucking Old King Allant is a bastard thorn in my side at the moment, I will shit on his grave when I finally put this bastard down.

    Can't wait for Dark Souls.

  • PlugMonkey #57 1 year ago

    Zebula77: You haven't even tried it? Then how do you know?

  • PlugMonkey #58 1 year ago

    but a lot of people want to account for every point in creating the bets build.

    These people ruin the game for themselves, imho. Do YOUR playthrough. You can always hit up a wiki for someone else's PERFECT playthrough later, but that first, unsullied, 100% YOURS playthrough? You can only ever do that once.

    It's a shame if people miss that.

  • Syrette #59 1 year ago

    You know, fair play to them for making the sequel multi-platform.

    I've never been convinced by Demon's Souls but good on them for widening the audience. Good for the 360 in general.
    Edited by Syrette at 01/02/11 @ 14:57

  • butler` #60 1 year ago

    The whole char development system was rather flawed, but, testament to the rest of the game's solidarity, it seemed (and still seems) almost irrelevant.

    I didn't know a thing about it when I first played it (and there was barely any English language websites or wikis back then) so I just played. But it didn't take me long to realise that a) all classes are the same at end game and b) you're basically just starting at a disadvanage with anything but Temple Knight or Royal.

    A game with the level design & combat of DS with a decent char development system... drool.

  • UncleLou #61 1 year ago

    Another huge change will be the removal of jobs - character classes. Miyazaki wants rid of any systems that impair play styles, although trade-offs presumably exist to prevent heroes becoming impervious tin-canned Gandalfs.

    I guess something was lost in translation here, because DS already has no real character classes. All that choosing a class in the beginning does is the distribution of the few initial attribute points, and the equipment you start with. There aren't any skill or equipment restrictions, all classes are the same.
    Edited by UncleLou at 01/02/11 @ 16:07

  • PlugMonkey #62 1 year ago

    Hopefully it'll stop people reading a wiki before they even play the game because they're paranoid they will be at a massive disadvantage if they don't choose Temple Knight or Royal?

  • mowgli #63 1 year ago

    Not sure how I feel about this, Demon's Souls had the most perfect difficulty imo. Making it harder for the sake of it doesn't equal better!

  • Mughes #64 1 year ago

    Hmm, I don't see how they could 'greatly increase' the difficulty without making it just plain unfair and frustrating. Part of the appeal of Demon's Souls is that while it's difficult and strict it's never unfair; if you die it's your own fault. If this loses that ethos I can't see it turning out well.

  • Sonic_D #65 1 year ago

    Can't wait, bring the pain!

    Been tempted to go back to playing DS, I basically stopped playing NG+ due to Maneater and new games piling up (I put 75 hours in to the game and loved it, but I had to move on!). It had been easier on NG+ up to that point, and yes I know you can kill one of them through the door but that's not my style.
    Edited by Sonic_D at 01/02/11 @ 17:44

  • PlugMonkey #66 1 year ago

    @Mughes:

    They could reduce the levelling. Or just get rid of it altogether.

    I remember the first time I fought those terminator skeleton things. They could kill me in one hit. But I studied their patterns, and it turned out they were pretty dumb, and while they could kill me in one hit, there was really no excuse for ever letting one hit me. 20 minutes later I was hunting them for sport. It was brilliant.

    Last time I went through that section I could kill them in one hit, and they couldn't kill me if I stopped and took a nap.

    It would have been more fun if the dangerous things I'd learned about were still dangerous, and the knowledge I'd earned with my blood was still relevent. Why does my character have to become an invulnerable demigod anyway? The thrill of Demons Souls was in feeling very, very mortal and ordinary.

    Hopefully they don't get carried away with their press and screw it up. For all the hype about the difficulty, Demons Souls isn't actually very difficult. Here's hoping they know what they've got and keep it in the same vein.

  • Natas_Enasni #67 1 year ago

    Dark Souls? Fuck yes, I'll take a hundred thousand.

    Hope the multiplayer is similar; can't wait to tool on some foolish invaders.

  • DRUNK3N-_-DRAGON #68 1 year ago

    what was so wrong with putting an auto save feature in demons souls?
    i played the first level and was doing so well only for a twat to enter my game and break all of my armour and haven't played since,
    if they put the auto save feature in then i would still be playing this now...frustrating as hell

  • smurphs #69 1 year ago

    Frigging loving DS at the moment. Played first 4 levels as a Royal, but felt the magic made it a bit easy if you were cautious.

    Playing as a knight now - this is how it should be. The combat is sooo good it makes my brain ache. Must stop Reading the walkthrough though.

    P.s. Just discovered if you quit in the middle of a level you'll load at the same spot! How very charitable.

  • Zaltan #70 1 year ago

    Willingness to purchase "greatly decreased" I suck at games and Demon's Souls was too hard for me TBH. I finished it. But it didn't seem worth playing, too much of a grind TBH.

    EDIT - Lots of TBH in that post TBH.
    Edited by Zaltan at 01/02/11 @ 19:34

  • Vyggo #71 1 year ago

    Woah, the game I most wished I had a ps3 for is coming to the xbox 360 (ok, the sequel). YES!!

  • djed #72 1 year ago

    @butler

    Did you play the Japanese version too? I didn't understand any part of the character creation, leveling system nor item creation, so I ended up fighting the false king with a my starting dagger and 35 levels of "Surviving higher falls"... At least I learnt to DODGE!

    PS, I read (on EG I think) that From Software originally had planned DS to be (even) more difficult, but Sony Japan put their foot down. Which was silly, considering all the money they could have made from the additional Dual Shock sales.

  • Zebula77 #73 1 year ago

    @PlugMonkey: Good point - basically only from what I've read and what friends have said.

    Like I said, I'm a pussy. :p