Rockstar dev recalls "deception", "abuse"

By Robert Purchese Published 20 December, 2010

The truth behind Red Dead Redemption?

Earlier this month Take-Two turned a profit, a feat that usually requires Grand Theft Auto. This time, however, it took the breakout success of one new game: Red Dead Redemption, a Wild West romp smothered with praise.

But at what cost?

One former employee has posted a revealing account of Red Dead Redemption's development at Rockstar San Diego - uncovering a working life of "deception", "manipulation" and "abuse".

That former employee is Zero Dean, whose blog post "My Life at Rockstar Games" now seems to have disappeared. A Google cache, however, reveals its contents.

As to its and his credibility, Zero Dean posts a quirky disclaimer accepting the caveats that come with a personal recollection. Zero Dean exists on LinkedIn, and his profile is linked to at the bottom of his blog post. Furthermore, his profile has been recommended by 13 people - 11 apparently from Rockstar San Diego. Zero Dean's job title was Senior Environment Artist on Red Dead Redemption.

Zero Dean joined Rockstar San Diego in 2007 and sensed something was "off" from the start; team bonding was "non existent", "no one had a clue what anyone else was working on and there was no feedback loop". Zero Dean decided to write a risky letter to his boss that eventually paid dividends and things improved, for a while.

"It really wasn't until after my first year at the company when people (higher-ups) started freaking out about how long the project had been in development, how much money was being wasted, and - and this is the big one - release dates," he wrote.

"And that's when the increase in the deception and manipulation by management began - slowly at first - and then over time it got totally nuts (by my standards)."

"Seriously," he added, "if the going-ons at the office had been filmed, it would've been a great comedy from a viewer's perspective, I'm sure. Sadly, it was real-life and hell for a lot of people - people talked about wanting to leave, but couldn't because they 'had kids', or 'a mortgage', or 'the economy is so bad' and 'no one is hiring'."

Zero Dean recalled how the hours increased from eight to 12, and days spread from five each week to six. Salaried workers weren't compensated for overtime but paid for a standard 40-hour week.

"Morale continued to deteriorate as the lies increased. And everyone was on edge. And we were being spoken to in meetings like incompetent 10 year olds," he wrote.

After months of cleaning someone else's shoddy and rushed work, Zero Dean was given responsibility of creating the Mexico part of Red Dead Redemption. But things turned sour when he tried to encourage his three-person team by sending them a private email.

"A few minutes later I was called into a meeting and was subjected to a complete fit of swearing and screaming for about 10-15 minutes," he remembered, "by an 'I'm obviously in charge here' higher-up who was, let's just say, not very popular amongst some - or maybe most - employees I ever came in contact with."

It was at that point Zero Dean realised emails were being monitored.

"How the f*** dare I say the (obviously unrealistic) schedule was unrealistic to three people in a private email?!" he recalls being told. "I was abusing my responsibilities as a Lead (how ironic)! It went on and on. "I felt like I was being dressed down by a drill sergeant - I mean in the most realistic sense. I felt like I'd somehow been transported to the military at that moment."

Zero Dean was nearly "fired on the spot" and "immediately stripped" of his responsibilities. He kept his vapid job title, and was told the management wouldn't "embarrass" him by sharing what had happened.

"So I rolled with the punches for as long as I could, but it became really difficult to ignore how ridiculous things were getting, not just for me but for everyone. And I came to realise that I'd somehow been sucked into thinking that it was all somehow OK. That is was OK for me to be working 12 hours a day," he wrote, "six days a week without compensation.

"That is was OK to be lied to and manipulated in the workplace. That it was OK to be spoken to by management as if you were child. That it was OK if management screamed at and abused people while their peers looked on (I wasn't the only one). And that is was OK I was letting real-life pass me by as a result of all this.

"It wasn't OK," he added, "It was actually far from OK.

"It wasn't until my boss took credit for my work - and politely argued with me about who had actually created it (I had the original documents on my desktop) - that I went back to my desk and started cleaning it. And then I realised I wasn't cleaning it, I was packing."

In retrospect, Zero Dean realises he should thank that his boss who effectively "pushed me out of hell".

"And thank you Rockstar," he added. "You taught me exactly how I don't want to run a business or treat employees (or human beings) ever."

Eurogamer has reached out to Rockstar for comment.

The world that Zero Dean built.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds. @Clert on Twitter.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (84) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • CosmicFuzz #1 1 year ago

    Wow.

  • Das_Ginge #2 1 year ago

    Not the first set of accusations towards Rockstar, and it begins to make me wonder just how bad things are over there.

  • HisDudness #3 1 year ago

    So no bonus then?

    Amazing the game turned out as well as it did. Hopefully the talent lands on its feet and gets back to making great games in a supportive setting. They deserve all the praise the game is receiving.

  • coomber #4 1 year ago

    Fair play to him, if true. Companies only get away with this sort of crap because too many people are so gutless they will allow themselves to be walked over.

  • madgerald Verified Studio Head of PR & Marketing, Colossal Games LTD #5 1 year ago

    Has anyone told Panorama?

  • Harmonica #6 1 year ago

    If it was so impossibly bad to work there you'd think the final product would show signs of it, instead of being one of the best games in recent memory.

  • Das_Ginge #7 1 year ago

    Coomber

    Its difficult to be brave when others welfare depend your gainful employment, and in situations like that it seems that your choices were suck it up or leave.

    If you had a family depending on your wage what would you do? Take into account that when your next employer asks your previous one for a reference what are they going to say?

  • Raiko101 #8 1 year ago

    I'm still hoping for the next video game market crash so we can say goodbye to these big companies who really don't give two craps about the games they're making or those people who put in all the hours they do.

  • hiddenranbir #9 1 year ago

    But surely Rockstar must be doing something right, RDR played well! Chuckle chuckle.

  • Paulie_P #10 1 year ago

    I wouldn't exactly call people gutless. People need the work in order to get paid. Sure you could walk out and not take it but somebody else will just take your place and there'll be no guarentee of when you'll get your next paycheck. Not only that but you may have dependents that rely on you to bring money into the household. Unfortunately some companies are willing to exploit this in order to treat their employees in such away with no real reprecussions.

  • FogHeart #11 1 year ago

    @Harmonica: In a previous life I was a slave in the Roman Empire, and as such I take umbrage at your remark.

  • actionfitz #12 1 year ago

    fucking disgusting yet totally believable too.
    Had a small sample of the whole 'lets work 7 days a week from 8am to 11pm for no extra pay' while working at Codemasters a load of years back - good old E3 demo crunch time - but it was never as bad as what im reading here. I did hear that in one of the other internal studios headphones and laughter were banned (i shit you not) - as laughter meant you weren't working, and music is a distraction...

    And yet people demonise Unions...
    Nothing will improve unless games artists/writers/musicians and coders are represented like actors and screen writers are in holywood.

  • Cherub007 #13 1 year ago

    The worst part of this whole sorry tale is how good the final game was when it came out (well, apart from the multiplayer, imo). It will make the scum this guy refers to feel the way they behaved was completely justified.

  • PixelPirate #14 1 year ago

    I worked at a place like this once (not games though natch)

    Ended with me dressing down the boss infront of everyone and storming out.

    All credit for him keeping his cool.

    This type of environment is just bad for everyone involved and often doesnt produce much of any merit. Its a credit to the team working under such terrible conditions that they put this game out in the state it is.

  • dr_shambles #15 1 year ago

    Companies that rely on manufactured panic and perpetual crunch are ridiculous. Surely Rockstar shouldn't be so beholden to shareholders and be in a greater position to dictate schedules?

    Always liked John Carmack's approach of 'it's released when it's done'.

  • Rorsch #16 1 year ago

    It's because of these stories I'm happily a gamer, and have no dreams of being a game developer.

    WORK FOR MY ENTERTAINMENT!

  • BabyJesus #17 1 year ago

    If you are doing work you're not paid for thats illegal.

    Take them to court instead of writing a blog.
    Edited by BabyJesus at 20/12/10 @ 16:13

  • kinky_mong #18 1 year ago

    "After months of cleaning someone else's shoddy and rushed work, Zero Dean was given responsibility of creating the Mexico part of Red Dead Redemption."

    Man responsible for dull middle act of fantastic game releases arsey blog. More at 11.

  • gospvg #19 1 year ago

    I remember telling an ex boss to fuck off in front of the whole department because he took credit for my work. When his secretary told me he was calling me back I told his secretary that if he follows me I will deck him!!

  • ScarboroughKID #20 1 year ago

    @kinky_mong

    If you read after that, he was relived of his responsibilities, so he didn't create that part of the game.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #21 1 year ago

    Sounds horrible but I don't doubt for a second that things really were that bad. It's still quite amazing that the game apparantly turned out that well (I haven't played it).

    I really understand what the guy had to go through. While not nearly as bad as his situation I am currently going though something a bit like this at work (I am not working in the gaming industry however).

  • Alf-Life #22 1 year ago

    It's horrible if true, but also sending dissenting emails (monitored or not) isn't the best practice as a Senior. Some places are shitty, but some people are also just victims because they let themselves be.

  • Eraysor #23 1 year ago

    Great game though.

  • peterfll #24 1 year ago

    Workers in the US are worse off - because it sounds like he could have had a case for constructuve dismissal under UK employment law. Not that many UK workers avail themselves of that option, for all the reasons listed here too (fear, etc). I know, I've been there myself. But you have to move forward, confident that you'll never let someone treat you like that ever again.

  • peanut80 #25 1 year ago

    The game might have been great - but don't forget it had some really very embarrassing bugs on release. So the final product wasn't all that great in terms of quality control. If the blog is true, I wonder what the repercussions of that were inside the studio. Ouch.

  • glottis0 #26 1 year ago

    @sven_vath - I think the fact they (salaried employees) allegedly got paid nothing extra for doing over twice their contracted hours was the point of contention.

  • Kode #27 1 year ago

    Has anyone actually clicked on the Google cache link? His blog was updated on Saturday, either he has had a serious change of heart or his blog was tampered with.

  • Pinky_Floyd #28 1 year ago

    Sven you might not mind working for free. I however detest it with every fibre of my being. You want my skills and knowledge? Bloody well pay me for it!

  • Dubya #29 1 year ago

    Rockstar may make great games but no-one deserves to be treated ill in the work place even if they are "loosers".
    Indeed, this is not the first time we've heard reports of this kind coming from employees at Rockstar.
    I hate to say it, but for this reason I may just not buy a game made by them ever again. I know it won't matter to them, but out of principal. And Sven, sounds like you'll fit in just fine with their management team...
    Edited by Dubya at 20/12/10 @ 16:38

  • Iain815 #30 1 year ago

    Interesting read.

    I can understand that the environment must have been miserable to work in, but even with the unpaid overtime wasn't he not already getting a hefty salary anyway?

  • Fallen_Angel #31 1 year ago

    @peterfll Constructive Dismisal is pretty much a joke over here anyway. When my partner was run out of her job (She wasn't the first, basically the place was incredibly abusive to their female staff), I looked into it, and through my own research and being told by a number of legal representatives and Citizens Advice that there are so many exemptions and loopholes that it wasn't even worth chasing it up.

    @sven_vath Try to read moar. He didn't get paid ANYTHING extra for the overtime. He isn't complaining about overtime rates, he's complaining that he worked 20-30 odd extra hours a week and wasn't earning anymore than a normal 40 hour week. Thats not on regardless of what others would do for his job.
    Edited by Fallen_Angel at 20/12/10 @ 16:39

  • paulf #32 1 year ago

    @sven_vath - I think you are making the assumption that anyone in this got paid for overtime

    a certain amount of overtime is expected as an exception to the rule - but shifting a 40 week to a 72 hour week without upping people's pay is just wrong, no wonder they made a profit cause they essentially used slave labour to create the thing

  • PearOfAnguish #33 1 year ago

    Oh dear...EG you realise that by posting this Rockstar PR will stop talking to you now. You'll have to give them 10/10 for their next game or you won't get invited to any of their parties.

  • parablax #34 1 year ago

    If communication,etc was as bad as he described, how did the game become the succcess it is?

  • drxym #35 1 year ago

    Rockstar appears in several stories as a horribly shitty place to work. And a horribly shitty company to deal with if you're a reviewer with bad things to say about one of their games. I realise most game projects have a crunch time, but it seems some companies are far better keeping their staff happy than others. Backstabbing and haranguing people is just not cool in any circumstances.

  • Stagga #36 1 year ago

    @Kinky_mong "After months of cleaning someone else's shoddy and rushed work, Zero Dean was given responsibility of creating the Mexico part of Red Dead Redemption."

    Man responsible for dull middle act of fantastic game releases arsey blog. More at 11.

    He was an Environment artist. He didn't create gameplay, just the (stunning) environment of Mexico. If you thought it was dull you should address your concerns at the designers not the artists who did an incredible job.

  • Wizzle #37 1 year ago

    I would like to say I will boycott the next Rockstar game in protest, but that would be a fat, fat, lie.

  • jonsaan #38 1 year ago

    You can't really judge a company on the thoughts of one disgruntled employee now can you?

  • Freki #39 1 year ago

    There are more than enough stories like this about the Games Industry as a whole that I think it still needs to grow up properly. For a business so heavily reliant on staff they really do need to start treating their staff better. Games developers probably also need to stop thinking of it as "getting paid to do my hobby".

  • King_Edward #40 1 year ago

    And to top it off Red Dead wasn't even very good.

  • adamantium #41 1 year ago

    wow did you guys click the link?

    Sat, Dec 18, 2010 4:24 pm | by Zero Dean | Blog
    [Let me just say before I start this — and to clear up any potential misunderstanding as to why you should question my credibility here — because for obvious reasons I have to say this — as far as working at Rockst*r goes:

    I was totally incompetent. Lazy. Disruptive. A rebel. An instigator. Disrespectful, not only in general, but of authority as well.

    Not only was I totally clueless and had no real understanding of the actually going-ons at the company, I was basically an all-around trouble-maker. Oh yes, and an ignorant know-it-all. In fact, most of what you are about to read is probably lies or the work of a totally delusional person.

    Also, not only do I clearly have my own agenda here — I am also trying to make myself look good, as if I am a model employee, but I am not. I was a bad, bad employee.]

    The following is most likely a complete fabrication — unless it’s all true. Who knows, right? Any reference to anything resembling actual people, places, or events is purely coincidence."


    very odd

  • jonbwfc #42 1 year ago

    @Sven_vath - I'm sure people sign contracts that say 'you will work as many hours as we tell you to, even if means you don't see your wife and children and end up sleeping under your desk'. I'm sure that happens all the time.

    You're an idiot.

  • PearOfAnguish #43 1 year ago

    You can't really judge a company on the thoughts of one disgruntled employee now can you?

    How about many disgruntled employees? This isn't the first story of its kind to come from Rockstar.

  • Perfecto #44 1 year ago

    I feel the mans pain, unfortunately overtime is the bane of this industry.Until it is the norm to pay people for the the extra time and effort they put in, any company can abuse the system and undercut their competition by simply forcing people to do crunch time. Ive seen it, Ive experienced it, and it's a tradgedy that it still happens.
    Edited by Perfecto at 20/12/10 @ 17:32

  • hiddenranbir #45 1 year ago

    10 people failed to read sarcasm. :(

  • Dubya #46 1 year ago

    Stop rattling on about "overtime" already! According to Zero's account of things, overtime was the least of the problems. How employees are treated at work is what is the real problem.
    Edited by Dubya at 20/12/10 @ 17:02

  • drxym #47 1 year ago

    Indeed it's not the first story. The wives of Rockstar employees kicked off this years round of complaints, but there have been more before that.

    http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarS...

  • RelaxedMikki #48 1 year ago

    That Working Time link: [link url=http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029426
    ]http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/E...[/link]

    Nice to see that you can still legally get the 'domestic servant in your private house' to do more than 48 hours work in a week?!

    Ouch.
    Edited by RelaxedMikki at 20/12/10 @ 17:06

  • darleysam #49 1 year ago

    Unlike some of the other 'sensational' stories, this one actually sounds rather credible.

  • kangarootoo #50 1 year ago

    I heard a few things about RDR development. Not about the conditions in the US, but about the schedule. Quite a few staff from Rockstar North were pulled in to make up the time quite near the end of the dev cycle, and they did pretty heavy crunch during that time too.

  • Windypops #51 1 year ago

    Blimey. That sven chap's a barely sentient stool sample isn't he?

  • gjgjg #52 1 year ago

    Sounds like the working conditions in the time and place the game was set in. This isnt the first RS -1 from presumed past employees, I love the games but I don't wana support a company that treats people like prostitutes that can be driven over and robbed after doing business

  • kangarootoo #53 1 year ago

    @sven_vath

    "what kind of lead motivates his workers by email?!"

    You really are trying every angle on this one aren't you.

    How about we just all agree you don't know what you are on about (as opposed to everyone except you agreeing you don't know what you are on about, which is currently what is happening) and save you a lot of effort.

    What kind of lead motivates by email indeed, what a truly ridiculous question.

  • Ranger101 #54 1 year ago

    @sven_vath

    You clearly haven't worked as a developer in the entertainment/digital industry. I have. It's horrible. I am very skilled at what I do, and I expect to be fairly compensated for my time, and to be treated respectfully. I will happily work overtime if I have pride and respect in the project I am working on. Unfortunately, the entertainment industry attracts, amongst some very gifted technical people, a rather large amount of deceitful people - they're 'necessary' for sales and promotional purposes, allegedly.
    Having worked in the private/corporate industry writing 'boring', multi-million pound software, and having worked for an entertainment-industry based company writing a some code for a very high-profile game amongst other high profile brands, I can assure you that I will never work for a video game company, ever, unless I own it.

    tl;dr: I do have the high-profile brands on my CV and they do open a few more doors - but it doesn't bring back the days, hours and minutes lost that could have instead been spending time with my family, friends and living life in general. The damage done is Not worth the trade.

  • kangarootoo #55 1 year ago

    @sven_vath

    That the game turned out well in the end does not mean it was not hell to work on, or that it did not take longer than planned (we KNOW it did), or that it didn't cost more to amke than was originally budgeted (we KNOW it did).


    As for how Gordon Ramsey might communicate with his kitchen staff... wtf, could you possibly think of a less effective analogy? Email is just one form of communication, and the suggestion that motivation can only be delivered in person is a nonsense of the highest order. Q. are you David brent?

  • chrisola #56 1 year ago

    in other news, Christmas was cancelled for Zero Dean's children.

  • actionfitz #57 1 year ago

    @sven_vath

    Troll much?

  • kangarootoo #58 1 year ago

    @sven_vath

    "you need to put in the blood sweat and tears to get something amazing out... "

    Nonsense.

  • Redeye #59 1 year ago

    sven - Have you ever actually worked in the games industry? Because the ignorance, stupidity and outright gormlessness that screams from your comments suggest that you don't have a bloody clue.

    Either that, or you're a R* shill. Either way, begone, cretin.

  • Ryboy #60 1 year ago

    Great read, all credit to him for staying calm for as long as he did. I would have gone fucking postal in half that time.

  • CaLeDee #61 1 year ago

    rofl.. sven, you're as clueless as an old turnip.

  • Rodchenko #62 1 year ago

    sven - Have you ever actually worked in the games industry? Because the ignorance, stupidity and outright gormlessness that screams from your comments suggest that you don't have a bloody clue.

    Imo there is nothing ignorant or clueless about his comments, no matter how much you want to insult him. It might be deplorable and abusive practice but it's also very common in the creative industries that you have to work crazy (mostly unpaid) extra hours, especially during crunch times when a deadline approaches.

    The reason for this is that such jobs (advertising, design, game development etc) are high in demand and if you don't like the conditions, there are two dozen who'd take your position in a heartbeat. I know of a few architecure grads in NY who worked for NOTHING just to get that fancy office name on their resume. Again, I am not endorsing this, but it's a reality and if you sign up for the ride, you better be prepared.

    What I don't like about that Zero guy is that he is indirectly complaining about the lack of solidarity from colleagues who decided to bite the bullet and stick in there for various (imo) much more viable reasons (children to support, fear of unemployment etc.)

    It's also not the case that he was working 12 hours on some inhumane job (like knitting H&M T-shirts, digging for coal, or packing iPhones) for the daily salary of a Starbucks cappucino – unlike a billion Asians, of which none has the time or the means to run a blog about 'deception' and 'abuse' in the workplace.

  • spekkeh #63 1 year ago

    It's horrible if true, but also sending dissenting emails (monitored or not) isn't the best practice as a Senior. Some places are shitty, but some people are also just victims because they let themselves be.

    Yes, because they don't speak the truth. Telling it how it is, even if that's dissenting, or blunt and ungentlemanlike, is always the best practice.

  • spekkeh #64 1 year ago

    @rodchenko: pay peanuts, get monkeys. Even if there's a near unlimited amount of them and you might end up approaching shakespeare.
    Edited by spekkeh at 20/12/10 @ 19:33

  • Kaminari #65 1 year ago

    Ever since I heard of the "Rockstar wives" complain about the way their husbands were treated by upper Rockstar NYC management (almost a year ago), I kept being amazed at how much dedication those guys have shown to their project against all odds.

    Every single time I fire up RDR, I think of those guys who slaved away to create what would become the GOTY 2010. I'm proud to have paid it full price in order to show my appreciation to the massive work they did -- and at the same time, I'm ashamed that my money ended up in the management's pockets.

    Hola Zero Dean, I salute you from Nuevo Paraiso.

  • Spekingur #66 1 year ago

    I want the name of that management guy, he should be fired. I hate people like that - these 'my job title is better than yours thus I am better than you' type of people.

    This is Rockstar San Diego. How about the other Rockstar studios?

    It is obvious that sven_vath has never been a lead in anything. Do you even know how software companies work? Have you seen inside of one? Do you know how many diffirent people there are? What projects each person is working on? Should you have a meeting every time you want to motivate your team, maybe three times a day (that's about 15-30 minutes away from actual work, each time) - thus distracting them from actual work rather than just send an e-mail that takes them maybe up to 5 minutes away from their work each time?
    Maybe sven_vath is that paranoid management guy that likes to monitor his employees e-mails like some kind of an Orwellian dictator?

  • CARL05 #67 1 year ago

    sounds like he works at currys. I bet rockstar pay better though.

  • EthanWoods #68 1 year ago

    Normally these things don't ring true (like that random ex-artist at EA or BioWare who was somehow aware of all of the costings and goings-on for TOR) but there's something about this that does, especially after the complaints of family members a few months back too, ring true.

  • Xboxfanuk #69 1 year ago

    Isn't this how the games industry and tech industries are run? It seems creative/technological industry is beyond the normal workers rules and behaviour. It's only a matter of time before people start suing companies.

    Why is other industries have unions to support them, and most tech/creative industries are completely abused by a clue-less management with no recourse.
    Edited by Xboxfanuk at 20/12/10 @ 20:47

  • hoster #70 1 year ago

    Rodchenko's comment is currently at -1 at the time of writing, but he's not wrong.

    Industry managers can treat their employees like rubbish, because they can. There are more prospective employees than there are vacancies.

    The games industry is perceived as being glamorous, and therefore there are a lot of people who want to break into it. Lots of British universities run game or animation courses and churn out hundreds of graduates each year.

    Additionally with the current state of the economy there have been a a few high profile closures of large studios, which has meant an influx of experienced staff onto the jobs market.

    You don't like working for that large midlands-based developer? Tough. Leave and they can hire some one new in a few weeks. Maybe an ex-employee of Real Time Worlds or Reflections or Bizarre Creations. Maybe a recent graduate on half your salary.

    I'm not condoning this, but that is the reality on the ground. Additionally there's the issue of 'prestige' good firms can pay less because people want to work for them more (zero-dean mentions repeatedly how he was working for "Rockst*r-effing-games!";)

    There are parallels in other sectors - Pixar are the best animation studio in the world (imo) and one of the most financialy successful film studios in history. They pay far less than Dreamworks or blue Sky. Prestige :/

  • OneClassyBloke #71 1 year ago

    Does anyone else notice the irony of a company that used intimidation and deception techniques on their employees to encourage them to produce games which focus on characters who use intimidation and deception techniques?

  • darkmorgado #72 1 year ago

    @Bobby Kotick

    Post-it notes are the lifeblood of management, far more important than common sense and people skills.

    This is depressingly accurate.

  • wikidd #73 1 year ago

    @peterfll Constructive dismissal in the UK is very hard to show and not something a union rep would ever advise someone do. In order to show constructive dismissal you have to show that the conditions in your workplace are such that you can't reasonably continue working there and in order to show that, you should have been through the grievance procedure.

    If you disagree with the outcome at the second stage of your companies internal grievance procedure then you have the option of tribunal, so the first question any tribunal will ask when you bring a claim of constructive dismissal is why you didn't come to tribunal that way instead of quitting and claiming constructive dismissal.

    In the sort of circumstances experienced by the RDR guys, the best course of action would be to take time off due to stress caused by workplace bullying and harassment. Here in the UK your employer would then have a responsibility to refer you to an occupational health provider where you'll have an interview with a doctor. On the whole those guys will take your side, what with them being proper doctors and having ethics and whatnot, and from there you can start building a case against your employer.

    Faced with that, most bullying employers will quickly change their ways; some don't though.

  • Dubya #74 1 year ago

    sven_vath is most likely an unemployed, overweight, 40 year old virgin who lives with his mummy, so let's just ignore his ridiculously ignorant comments.

  • paulf #75 1 year ago

    for all the people saying about there being plenty of people who would take the job, yes there maybe are but how many of them can actually do it ?, and then how many of them can do it well ?

    we're talking highly skilled work here, any company that is worth working for realises that the people who make the stuff are the most important asset. Unfortunately not many take this approach, that's why I prefer to work freelance where the relationship is more honest and balanced

  • Gastrian #76 1 year ago

    Post deleted at 17:56:43 13-04-2012

  • Machiavellian #77 1 year ago

    Salaried employees do not get overtime. Usually when you sign that contract, it stipulates what you get as a salaried employee. It will state if you get bonus and such for work or profitbility of the company. If the contract doesn't state any bonus then the company that hired you are not obligated to pay you anything beyound your Salary. The majority of the time, Salaried employees are paid and a much higher rate than regular employees because of the hourly demand of the job they will be working.

  • hoster #78 1 year ago

    "TBH all the staff shoudl ahve got together and just stuck tot eh 40 hour day, if all the staff jsut stopped what they were doing , got up and walked out at the end of each day they would ahve had to change the practices, can't fire all teh staff (in fact can't fire them at all as long as they don't break contract)"

    They could just close down the studio and move work over to a new R* Shenzhen or wherever

  • kangarootoo #79 1 year ago

    @sven_vath

    Me, a toff?

    Haarhaarhaar.


    Pompous... well, faced with you, its really hard not to be.

  • kangarootoo #80 1 year ago

    @Rodchenko

    But you and sven_vath aren't talking about the same thing.

    You are quite right that this sort of practice does exist in the business (though its not as common as you might think - bad news just shouts louder).

    sven_vath on the other hand seems to think that bad practices such as those described are the only way good games get made (plus some tosh about how leads should do their job). It is this that is nonsense and uninformed. it is entirely possible that a good game results from a terrible working environment, but if the working environment is GOOD the same quality game will be made for less money and less time.

    RDR was over budget and over schedule. That is surely not a reality that our industry should be embracing as "the way it is". It is incompetance, nothing more and nothing less. Quality can fight it way out of a badly run project, but it does so IN SPITE of the problems, not because of them.

  • Kaspar #81 1 year ago

    "team bonding was "non existent", "no one had a clue what anyone else was working on and there was no feedback loop""

    Ahh, so Rockstar San Diego is run just the same way as Rockstar North, then?

  • spekkeh #82 1 year ago

    They could just close down the studio and move work over to a new R* Shenzhen or wherever

    They could, of course, but at tremendous cost, and absolute certainty of not reaching their deadline. Managers often think their programmers are expendable, and if you need to make a deadline you can just throw in some more, but practice has shown time and time again that getting new people to understand the already written code only stalls the project considerably.

    Bullies pick easy targets. The employees should get more self respect and simply say no, and if you kick us out, your project will go over budget and then it's your job.

    Of course that's easy for me to say, if it's not my job on the line and my mortgage I have to pay. The main problem is of course not just that game developers should get more self respect, but also that all these programmers, artists and the like get hired on a project basis, and need to have some good references once they're out on the streets looking for the next project. Whereas the higher echelons all have their full-time jobs. A union could certainly help here.

  • Porcupine_I #83 1 year ago

    hhmmmm, i begin to understand why there is no news about Agent :-D

  • BuddyChrist #84 1 year ago

    Dean is pretty damn resilient to take that- though when you work so hard for a rare job, that happens.

    They'd need a crowbar to get my boot out of the fuckers face.