Valve shouldn't trademark DOTA - Blizzard

By Oli Welsh Published 23 October, 2010

Pardo confused, "doesn't seem right".

Blizzard game design boss Rob Pardo thinks that Valve's attempt to trademark DOTA "doesn't seem the right thing to do".

Pardo told Eurogamer that Blizzard was confused by Valve's move and believes it has the right to use the term in the name of its free StarCraft II mod, Blizzard DOTA, announced at BlizzCon today.

DOTA refers to the hugely popular online gametype born of the famous Warcraft III mod, Defence of the Ancients. Valve is currently developing DOTA 2 for its Source engine after employing some of the DOTA mod development community. Superannuation discovered that Valve had filed a trademark registration for DOTA earlier this year.

"To us, that means that you're really taking it away from the Blizzard and Warcraft III community and that just doesn't seem the right thing to do," said Pardo, Blizzard's executive vice president of game design.

Pardo described his reaction to the move as "a little bit of confusion, to be honest. Certainly, DOTA came out of the Blizzard community... It just seems a really strange move to us that Valve would go off and try to exclusively trademark the term considering it's something that's been freely available to us and everyone in the Warcraft III community up to this point.

"Valve is usually so pro mod community. It's such a community company that it just seems like a really strange move to us... I really don't understand why [they would do it], to be honest."

Valve's DOTA development is led by Abdul Ismail, known as IceFrog. Ismail was recently the target of an anonymous rant by a supposed Valve employee who called him a "compulsive liar", "unpleasantly domineering" and "poisonous to the company".

"He's one of the guys that most recently had been working on the DOTA Allstars map," said Pardo. "So I'm assuming, since he wants to continue making that map, that [Valve] felt like they should be able to trademark it."

Blizzard is showing internally-developed free mods for StarCraft II at BlizzCon this weekend. The biggest project of these is Blizzard DOTA, a Defence of the Ancients variant starring Blizzard characters from across its franchises, including Warcraft and Diablo ("a bit like Super Smash Brothers," according to the panel that unveiled it).

What if Valve were to object to Blizzard's use of the term for Blizzard DOTA, we aksed? "Our response is that they don't own the term DOTA at this point. It's something that they're filing for," Pardo said.

"Our contention is that it should continue to be available to Blizzard and to our community."

Picture of Oli.

About Oli Welsh

Oli is Eurogamer's acting deputy editor and reviews editor and likes to take things one word at a time. He is among the best dressed people in South London.

Read more articles from Oli by visiting the Oli Welsh archive page.

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Comments (50) Latest comment 1 year ago

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  • butler` #1 1 year ago

    I thought the exact same thing, it isn't a very Valve thing to do.

    Fact is though, it aint Blizzards. It's obviously a valueable bit of IP and it's spawned successful spin offs (LoL, HoN) and has these two PC gaming giants vying for control over it.

    It might be that Blizzard simply missed the boat on this one.

  • Oli Verified Reviews Editor, Eurogamer.net #2 1 year ago

    I don't like it when mummy and daddy fight.

  • Wyrm #3 1 year ago

    It ain't Blizzards, but it sure as hell ain't Valves either.

  • AHiFi #4 1 year ago

    Sooo, they decided to do Left 2 Die in response?

  • Paul_cz #5 1 year ago

    They should just both name their games DOTAs...
    Valve DOTA (or DOTA Source) VS Blizzard DOTA

    FIGHT!

  • UrbanMyth #6 1 year ago

    i dont think it belongs to blizzard. WC3 was a cage that has limited dota gameplay with its engine. its rather icefrogs gynsoos

  • Freek #7 1 year ago

    GiantBomb said it best IMO; "it's like they are making a game about space wizzards, laser swords, spaceships and they just happened to call it Kotor, it's weird".

  • Seehuusen #8 1 year ago

    The game belongs to the creator of the game, and he's working for valve now, im just saying....

  • Freek #9 1 year ago

    That's the thing though, there isn't just one person who worked on Dota. There's many people and different teams so it's not that clear cutt at all.

  • Raznilof #10 1 year ago

    First the anonymous insults, now a civilised (non anonymous) plea to the community. In politics this is called a carefully orchestrated smear campaign. First create a big fire but don't tell anyone where it is, then show a little smoke and hope everyone calls "fire!".

    When in fact both companies are simply out there to make money.

    And.....I do so enjoy giving it to both of them.

    So I couldn't care as long as the original talent is rewarded.

    @freek, your analogy falls a little bit short. If George Lucas decides to go to another company, he'd still call his brain child Star Wars (if it was never registered). Though you're of course right that usually games are a group effort and it puts your remark in the right context indeed.

  • Freek #11 1 year ago

    And that's usually how Valve did it in the past. Counterstrike, Day of Defeat, Portal, the WHOLE team and/or company was bought or hired to Valve so that there was never any doubt or strangeness about the situation. The people who made those games in the past are still making them now, just as a commercial product.
    Edited by 1 at 23/10/10 @ 09:11

  • Shikasama #12 1 year ago

    Non-buyers remorse?

  • Transcendent #13 1 year ago

    Why not name it Aeon of Strife which is the original SC1 mod?

  • ChthonicEcho #14 1 year ago

    To us, that means that you're really taking it away from the Blizzard and Warcraft III community...

    Didn't know Warcraft III community was equal to StarCraft II's community. Blizzard are just sore Valve moved first, judging by the length and irrationality of this rant of theirs.

    Yes, yes, it wasn't a Valve thing to do. Was releasing a sequel a year later a Valve thing to do? Was an in-game cash shop a Valve thing to do? How do people determine what Valve would or should do?
    Edited by 2 at 23/10/10 @ 10:04

  • hiddenranbir #15 1 year ago

    Valve aren't angels. They want to get paiiiid.

  • Kami #16 1 year ago

    Of course they do, but that said it really is an un-Valve-y move. It's not Blizzard's, but it really isn't Valves, and even if the creator is working for Valve - the title is intrinsically tied to another games series as a result. It's an enormous dickmove by Valve, but it's not very Blizzard to moan like this about it either...

    Very confusing to want to bitchslap Valve and Blizzard at the same time and tell them both to grow up and behave...

  • Machetazo #17 1 year ago

    "but it really isn't Valves, and even if the creator is working for Valve"

    Could part of the working with Valve deal, be a point that Valve gets to TM the IP, in order for the community to get the publisher's expertise and knowhow added in to the sequel's development?

  • Eury #18 1 year ago

    Icefrog isn't the creator of the original mod called Aeon of Strife that was made for Starcraft. Nor did he create Defense of the Ancients, and nor is he the creator for the version of Defense of the Ancients that really got popular called Defense of the Ancients Allstars.

    In short, Icefrog didn't create anything, however he is the latest caretaker of DoTA.

  • uzivatel #19 1 year ago

    @hiddenranbir: Too many gamers fail to realize that.

  • brseg #20 1 year ago

    I didnt know the history of the name, but to be honest I dont think its a great name anyway, think of a better one...!

  • butler` #21 1 year ago

    Oli put it a nice way really, 'cus it makes you feel f*** awful as a gamer.

    How do you choose between Blizzard and Valve? We've never really had to before...

  • Kami #22 1 year ago

    "Could part of the working with Valve deal, be a point that Valve gets to TM the IP, in order for the community to get the publisher's expertise and knowhow added in to the sequel's development?"

    Perhaps, but I think the real problem Valve have is this is a title that means a lot to another modding community - one that isn't theirs. This is a company, aside the fact they want to make money, that at the very least should understand such a move is not going to fly with a lot of people. And what if they go after Blizzard? DOTA was used first as a Blizzard mod, if that community and company still wants to use it - Valve is going to find the legalities of that one aren't on their side. It has been freely available to anyone for years. Trademarking it now is dangerous - if a judge were to decide the internet had adopted it freely, Valve could be looking at a very humiliating kick in the nuts at the end...

    Of course, this isn't exactly news. Valve cannot be deluded enough to think they could win in such a scenario. Rather than being the fault of Valve or Blizzard however or even who should have done it first etc, really it is another example of the USOPT really not bothering to check their incoming stuff and do the research - none of this is information is hard to come by - I mean damn it's kind of in their remit and rules as well as this case - and yet they just take on any old shit and go "stamp, approved, next". It's how Tim Langdell got away with his crap for so long - that case should have raised massive alarm bells across the industry and USOPT but, it seems, the crap still goes on...

    Valve is probably in the more dangerous position here - it is clearly a dickmove that they'll come to regret in the future - it isn't like the mod team came with the trademark under their belts (that would be a whole 'nother ball game). Blizzard however shouldn't be whiney about it - it would be practically professional suicide for Valve to come after any Blizzard DOTA mod. Blizzard would have the stronger case, without question. Trademarks mean very little unless you can enforce them. I doubt Valve could enforce this one.

    It's just a shitty scenario all around really... if anything, as I said, this really does show up the USOPT more than anyone else...

  • Spekingur #23 1 year ago

    But it's okay for Blizzard to do something like Left 2 Die and StarJewelled?

    @hiddenrabbir: Very true. But they seem to caress their PC gaming community a lot better than Blizzard.

  • Kami #24 1 year ago

    Well, no. Left2Die is just silly. I think we can all say that - it's way too close to the knuckle. Starjewelled - well, Blizzard and PopCap have a very close relationship. See the in-game version of Plants VS Zombies in Cata, done in conjunction with PopCap. Also, official versions of Peggle and Bejwelled have been available for some time for WoW, developed by the very people who created them in the first place. I'm pretty sure that one was double-checked across the two companies.

    No winners here. It's a legal minefield. Someone is going to have their legs blown off in the end. I will quote a very good friend of mine who has more legal knowledge than I do on this;

    "Made by one person, taken over by another and another, the last in the line thinks he owns it when he never made it, the mod itself is a copyright infringement and now Valve thinks they can own a mod from another game. It would be funny if it wasn't really depressing..."
    Edited by 1 at 23/10/10 @ 15:24

  • Scopeh #25 1 year ago

    Anyone else think, Blizzard are looking for a fight?

    This could get very intersting if Valve decide to respond, Gaming Titans going head to head, it would make the Infinity ward/Activision cuffufle look miniscule.

  • djed #26 1 year ago

    DotA is the Warcraft mod. DOTA is the game Valve's making.

  • Collymilad #27 1 year ago

    @uzivatel

    Of course they do, they are a business. That doesn't change the fact that many ACTIONS they have taken show more care and understanding for the community than most devs. Thats why gamers appreciate and have a good attitude towards Valve. The fact they have the nerve to expect to make money whilst doing it doesn't change anything.

  • Spekingur #28 1 year ago

    Still, it's more DOTA. Which is good.
    Developed by Valve, giants in the PC gaming industry. Which is mostly good.
    And pretty much guranteed lots of support and hopefully free updates, if Valve's PC gaming history is anything to go by. Which is really good.

    At least they aren't charging 25USD for a mount. (Doing so is never good - at least not for gamers.)
    Edited by 1 at 23/10/10 @ 19:03

  • azix2 #29 1 year ago

    How is it not a valve thing to do? They take ideas from mods and sell it as theirs. not odd

  • butler` #30 1 year ago

    They take ideas from mods and sell it as theirs. not odd

    ...of their own games.

  • azix2 #31 1 year ago

    ...of their own games.

    apparently not. First time? Probably not

    wish i could get a refund on my l4d2 purchase. 7 dollars wasted.
    Edited by 1 at 23/10/10 @ 20:08

  • Golgo #32 1 year ago

    down with this sort of thing

  • Lord_Gremlin #33 1 year ago

    STFU, bastards. Shove your Battle.net up your arse. I'm glad Valve snatched that name from you.

  • Farzlepot #34 1 year ago

    Dear Valve,

    QUIT DICKING AROUND WITH ANYTHING THAT ISN'T HALF-LIFE 2 - EPISODE 3! PUT YOUR ENTIRE COMPANY TO WORK ON IT AT ONCE! ALL TEAMS! ALL DEPARTMENTS! EVEN THAT GUY WHO MAKES THE TEA AND SECRETLY GOBS IN IT BECAUSE HE CAN'T PLAY EPISODE 3 YET!

    Sincerely,

    Farzlepot.

  • Phishfood #35 1 year ago

    If Valve hired all the original creators then I suppose they can copyright it. Though they can still let the Blizzard modding commuinty use it for free, they still stop Blizzard from making it an official game type.

  • darth_paul #36 1 year ago

    if the creator of DOTA decides to sell the rights to VALVE, Blizzard has no right to say anything, imo

    Blizzard just expect to take further advantage of DOTA's presence in Starcraft for free. At least VALVE is putting the money where their mouth is :p
    Edited by 1 at 24/10/10 @ 01:04

  • Kami #37 1 year ago

    "If Valve hired all the original creators then I suppose they can copyright it."

    Except it isn't (I believe the current project leader is the third guy in that role), the original team who worked on DotA have gone onto their own projects - namely Heroes of Newerth and League of Legends. Basically, variations of DotA without teabagging the name. What Valve have is more or less people who got picked up along the way to keep the game moving - not the original team by any stretch of the imagination. Just those who were keeping it alive (and, from the reaction I've been reading today, are probably about to stab it to death...).

    Also, DotA was not above the copyright infringement. They basically wholesale pinched Kimahri from FFX for one class - portrait, model - the works. As a mod, this isn't the most massive deal in the universe but when you take that very mod and try to make it commercial - you're carrying baggage.

    Valve could have done what the original team did - advance on the game type but keep it seperate. HoN and LoL are good examples - neither perfect but people enjoy them. Instead, they decided they wanted DotA - a term that has been bandied about the internet for years and used to describe mods and games alike.

    And ultimately, the trademark is worthless unless they can stop the likes of Blizzard using it. The point of trademarking it would be to literally rip it away from its origins - this is no accident without intent. The whole point of the trademarking of it is to tear it away from its foundations. Unfortunately, if Valve show any leniancy or weakness to Blizzard, that trademark isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

    It will be interesting to see how Valve approach this. In the same way it is interesting to watch through binoculars as a man walks through a minefield. Secretly you may be rooting for him but really you just want to see the explosions and gore...

    edit; Note I'm not a DotA fan but today I ended up realising several people I know and count as friends, well, are. So umm, yeah, I've been listening to both sides of this argument for about 8 hours today...

    And I'm going to finish off that headache with a nice refreshing glass of Tenacious D. Good job I don't have to get up early...
    Edited by 2 at 24/10/10 @ 01:11

  • Kami #38 1 year ago

    "The Dota genre is one of the most amazing genres right now!"

    Key word - Genre.

    Valve has every right to trademark Dota.
    Blizzard was too late!

    Perhaps, but maybe Blizzard thought that such a loyal modteam would remain so. Naive? Perhaps. But the original team have gone on to make their own versions of DotA without pinching the name. I think the problem here isn't so much Valve not taking the oppertunity, just the question of - what is it worth?! Really. Valve are usually very good at keeping the PC userbase loyal and already today the divisions have been sown, the battle lines drawn.

    If this is what Valve want, then they're welcome to that particular poisoned chalice. Just so long as they're not expecting eternal youth...

  • dave-on #39 1 year ago

    Have to agree. I'm fed up hearing about other Valve titles when they have neglected their flagship franchise for over 3 years. Get on it.

  • subedii #40 1 year ago

    There's a key distinction to be made here. Valve copyrighted DOTA, not DotA. As in, the game being developed by them is literally called DOTA, it's not an acronym. Nobody's being prevented from creating Defence of the Ancients 2 and nobody will be stopped from calling it DotA, and in fact, I believe (Riot Games?) copyrighted that term.

    Valve are creating a game in that genre, and using key modders from it to do so. The name has obvious recognition for that genre, but this is going to be a full product release, not a mod. I don't see how Valve are "stealing" things here. It's like saying they never should have made Team Fortress Classic or Team Fortress 2. "Team Fortress 1 was a Quake community game, how dare they!". Well yeah, but they hired the modders from that community, and eventually released TFC and TF2.

    Most crucially, the existence of an officially Valve licensed franchise called Team Fortress has not prevented people from continuing to mod and create TF variants across other games. The Quake series variants (or as some would have it, the ORIGINAL community ("how dare they!" etc. etc.)). The UT series got its own variant of Team Fortress as well, as did AvP2, and heck, angry fanboys even made Fortress Forever for the Source engine, a mod that was designed to appeal to players of TFC. Amazingly, even the Star Trek: Voyager FPS got a version of Team Fortress. Suffice it to say, Valve may own Team Fortress now, but they don't own the idea of Fortress style games. They never have, and probably never can really.

    If Blizzard are worried about this, it's not like they can't easily compete, and it's kind of hard to say they're not when DotA's coming to Starcraft 2, and will likely be obscenely popular.

    The question of which one becomes the "official" version (if you can call it that given DotA's history) is just a question of which one becomes most popular with the community. And you know what? I'm going to be bluntly honest here and say I don't think it's going to be the Valve version. But that's a separate issue. People seem to be getting angry over the similarity of the name, as if it'll somehow dilute the other communities, but that's never going to happen. Valve's DOTA sinks or swims on its own, same as with the other MOBA's (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena, which is the term that people have coined for this genre of games). If someone makes Defence of the Ancients 2 and it flops, or succeeds, it won't have been because of Valve. Just like if Team Fortress 2 was crap, it doesn't matter about its name, people wouldn't have played it, they'd just play the other Fortress variants.

    EDIT: Mental note: Check your speeling before posting.
    Edited by 8 at 24/10/10 @ 10:34

  • Spekingur #41 1 year ago

    Do you people really think that working on Dota will take away from work on Half-Life 3? That's quite naive if you believe so.

    And I say Half-Life 3 because I am one of those who think that they decided to ditch Ep3 and just go for a full out new game possibly with an engine update and the works.

  • BorkWork #42 1 year ago

    "To us, that means that you're really taking it away from the Blizzard and Warcraft III community and that just doesn't seem the right thing to do," said Pardo, Blizzard's executive vice president of game design."

    As for any new DotA for SC2 and outwards.. Should that be that VALVE took it away from the community before Blizzard managed to do it? as the community now is owned by Blizzard, and if they don't like a mod for their game they can just delete it at a whim?

    Or is that maps only?

  • evldmn #43 1 year ago

    You fools, none of you understand the meaning of dota. No one of the huge dota community cares about the fucking ancients, its just dota to us. People break fingers, hands, legs for dota. Some douche said to me dota sux and do you know what I did? I bitchslapped him to the ground. Dota is a religion. Dota is played by over 25 million people. It is the most played game(yes game its not a map its a fuckin game) in the world right now. And the guy who is behind it is IceFrog, he didn't create stupid dota allstars and shit that guinsoo created nor he created aos and guess what nobody of the dota community cares. For the most of the community dota is a religion and IceFrog is god. When he farts it smells like flowers, when he pukes it rains cotton candy from the sky. There are people who you can meet outside and tell them: "hey, retard, icefrog sux dix" and they will rip you apart, but not for telling them that they are retards. We asked for new dota, with better graphics, easier hotkeys and such, reconnection tools, matchmaking systems and ladders that are actually working. They came LoL and HoN, and guess what? THEY SUCKED. THEY ARE NOT BALANCED, THEY ARE NOT COMPETITIVE, THEY ARE NOT DOTA COPIES, THEY ARE LAME DOTA RETARDED COPIES. THEY SUX, THEY SUK DIX, SHITS AND FUX. AND NOW WE GET DOTA 2, WITH THE FUCKIN SOURCE ENGINE(im hl fan man and i love hl and i cant wait for hl:e3, but dota... is dota) and cool voices and stuff and like that cloth fuck shit and morphling looks awesome and we are like :o we masturbate infront of the cg. And we are not no lifers. Most of the dota community are normal people, who have jobs, kids, wives, girlfriends. There are bodybuilders, engineers who play dota because its so damn good. AND THE FUCKING BLIZZARD CUM FUCKS MONEY SUKING DONKEY SHITTERS SAY THAT VALVE ARE WRONG. VALVE'S ONLY MISTAKE IS THE FUCKING L4D2 ITS FUCKIN RETARDED, BUT THEY ARE THE GODS OF GAMING. EXCEPT l4d2 they NEVER, NEVER had a bad game. And who haven't played their games better do you damn fucks. SO IF U FEEL LIKE AN AVERAGE GAMER, IF U FEEL U ARE NOT A NOOB, AND U DONT WANT TO BE FRIENDLY AND DONT CARE IF ANYBODY IS FRIENDLY WITH YOU GO PLAY FUCKING DOTA, DOWNLOAD FUCKING ILLEGAL WC3, PATCH IT, DL GARENA PLAY. ULL GET OWNED CUZ UR NOOB. AFTER A YEAR ULL GET GOOD. ULL PWN. ULL UNDERSTAND THE TRUE MEANING OF DOTA. U DAMN FUCKS. lol that made me cry ;/ Q_Q y, but i dont qq when i destroy ur ass with sven u fucking noob, QQ, plug, altqq u noob, ragequit FHASHSAHASSHSAHSH AH SHHASAHSSHAHSAHAHSHASHAHASHASHS DIE, UR MOTHER DIE, UR FATHER DIE!

  • a8a #44 1 year ago

    @ evldmn

    E-thug much?

  • Genji #45 1 year ago

    What the fuck is DOTA

    And why does it matter if it's trademarked? Just call it something else. It's still the same thing.

  • paketep #46 1 year ago

    Hey, Pardo, dropping LAN support didn't seem the right thing to do either, and yet you did it.

    I don't agree with many things Valve does (DOTA 2 being one), but at least they care about their customers.

  • HunterSeeker #47 1 year ago

    Not a very Valve thing to do? Have you forgotten about Counter Strike, Team Fortress and the other billions of Valve produced 'mod to commercial' games already?

    Dota as a standalone game is inevitable. The war3 engine is outdated to say the least, and it being the first 3d engine Blizzard ever used in an rts. If blizzard really cared then they should have worked with Eul/Guinsoo/Icefrog to produce a standalone version themselves. They only had, what, seven f**king years to do that.

    Not only that, they never improved upon the custom games system in warcraft 3. It was a pain finding/hosting games of Dota before gg and other 3rd party programs came along. Yet they still lack the most basic features that a multiplayer game should ahev such as rankings and stats tracking system.

  • herolaubet #48 1 year ago

    I dont give a f*** about what name they use, it was up for grabs, Valve did the rational move and grabbed it. Its like there's a piece of cake thats really delicious and you're right next to it and you dont take it because you think you dont deserve it. Its retard. And Blizzard should've gathered the DoTA developers and hired them a long time ago, they were simply stupid for not doing so. Now they dont have any right to say anything to Valve.

    That being said, I do think it is right to just steal all the heroes and itens of the original mod like they're apparently doing for 2 reasons:
    1- IceFrog did not develop all the heroes and items so he has no right to use them in anything else that is not DoTA
    2- A lot of designs for heroes and items were taken directly from the Warcraft 3 game which is a Blizzard property. If Valve doesnt change them its going to be real bad. I can already smell the copyright lawsuit against them.

    Also i'm going to be real pissed if these bastards stop dota 1 development by enforcing the copyrights. U wanna make a sequel? Fine. But dont spoil the fun of those that still wanna play the original and not some pretty copy.
    Edited by 1 at 25/10/10 @ 22:14

  • salabaster #49 1 year ago

    i didnt think it was possable to trade mark a name that has been used for a game allready for the past like 9? years. Icefrog didnt make dota, he cant sell it.

  • HunterSeeker #50 1 year ago

    @salabaster
    DoTA is not a game, nor is it even a mod. It is a MAP. No one owns DoTA and no one is going to sell it.