Gearbox: PC distributors should play nice

By Tom Bramwell Published 11 October, 2010

Frustrated that Steam, GfW Live don't talk.

Gearbox Software has called on gamers to tell PC distribution services like Steam and Games for Windows Live to co-operate with one another so people can play together.

"We want people to be able to play together and right now if a guy buys a game on Games for Windows and a guy buys a game on Steam - they can't play together. If another guy bought it in a retail store, he can't play with the first two guys," Gearbox head of marketing Steve Gibson told the London Games Festival blog.

"Right now we're like, 'Please, work together'. Our big concern right now is that these silos are being built. Everybody's separating out and it's really... as a developer who just wants gamers to be able to play games together, it's frustrating right now.

"Things like that are hurting the PC industry for gamers. This is frustrating for everybody right now. Call out to the gamers. Hey gamers? Tell these guys to play nice!"

Gibson had been asked whether Duke Nukem Forever - which the studio announced a few weeks ago that it would be finishing following 3D Realms' collapse - would be made available on Valve's Steam service, which boasts over 25 million users, or at retail.

He didn't directly answer that, but said, "We wanted to have as many ways that people could get to it as possible."

Duke publisher 2K Games has traditionally used Steam as one of several distribution mechanisms for its PC products - most recently including Civilization V and Mafia II. Like the latter, Duke is also due out for PS3 and Xbox 360.

Check out our Duke Nukem Forever hands-on if you ain't afraid of no quake.

Picture of Tom.

About Tom Bramwell

Tom is Operations director of Eurogamer Network and Editor-at-Large of Eurogamer.net. He joined the company in February 2000. Follow him on Twitter.

Read more articles from Tom by visiting the Tom Bramwell archive page.

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Comments (38) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • ChthonicEcho #1 2 years ago

    Am I missing something, or does this guy have no idea what he's talking about? Steam actually distributes games that are GFWL titles. Steam is a distributor. Is he confusing it with Steamworks?

  • GamesConnoisseur #2 2 years ago

    Distributor yes, but able to play online together in MP game?

  • kestral #3 2 years ago

    So this is why some games have GfW and steam built in then?

  • Bitkari #4 2 years ago

    Steam friends, Live friends, game-specific friends - it's all very annoying.

    We need a nice protocol where ALL games can share data regardless of release platform.

    There was a rather excellent server browser a while ago that sort of did this (All Seeing Eye), but that got bought out by Yahoo and was promptly destroyed.

    Lame.

  • Death-Jester #5 2 years ago

    Hah, I remember All Seeing Eye back in my Half Life 1/TF1 days. That was a very handy program.

  • Headless_Monkey_Boy #6 2 years ago

    I can't see this happening (talking together) but i would have thought that if you but a gfwl game from steam, that you'd still have access to the microsoft servers and vice vesa.

  • Sunyavadin #7 2 years ago

    This, this, oh this.

    We have titles which use Steam AND GFWL, how hard is it, really, to add a tab to each of them to track friends lists across platforms, then implement cross-platform chat?

    Surely it would BENEFIT both platform holders, since it would give users of each platform a stake in the other, and encourage people who would otherwise remain exclusive users of one platform to invest in the other as well!

  • Skurmedel #8 2 years ago

    Stop using GFWL, Simples :D

  • ChthonicEcho #9 2 years ago

    @GamesConnoisseur

    Yes? For example, I bought Street Fighter IV on Steam, whereas a friend bought it in a store. We both can play just fine. Same goes for Dead Rising 2, Dawn of War II and other Games for Windows - Live titles on Steam. The guy is comparing apples and oranges - GFWL is a multiplayer component, whereas Steam is a distributor.

    On the off chance he has the same point as Bitkari (no persistent friends list, et al.), he makes a naive and juvenile point. That's like saying only one united retail store chain should exist, instead of the varying names and different pre-order bonuses. It has nothing to do with Steam or GFWL in particular; it's to do with capitalism and competition.
    Edited by ChthonicEcho at 11/10/10 @ 09:34

  • apoc_reg #10 2 years ago

    Good call gearbox

  • Freek #11 2 years ago

    This doesn't make sense since a game will only ever one multiplayer service in it. Either GfWL or Steamworks. Regardless of where you buy it; online or offline you play against everybody else who bought the game.

  • subedii #12 2 years ago

    Yeah I uh... don't think he needs to worry about that so much anymore, considering these days devs seem to be dumping GFWL in favour of Steamworks for their multiplayer architecture.

    On that note, the comments are still bizarre. Whether I buy a Steamworks game online or in-store is irrelevant, I can still play the game with the rest of the playerbase. It's not divided along those lines like he says it is. Same for GFWL titles like Chaos Rising, and heck, that even uses Steamworks for its updating so it's actually tied to both systems.

    It's also bizarre because Randy Pitchford has come out in the past saying just how much he hates Steam.

    Regardless, I'd also like some form of unified online community system, but there's no way that MS would concede to something like that. It's hugely ironic, but there's actually a greater chance of a unified community between the PC and the PS3 now since Valve are being allowed to put Steamworks on Sony's machine.

    It'd be hilarious if we ended up with cross-platform co-op play for Portal between the PC and the PS3, but not between the PC and the 360.

    Well, hilarious, and sad I should say.
    Edited by subedii at 11/10/10 @ 09:48

  • Dynamize #13 2 years ago

    If another guy bought it in a retail store, he can't play with the first two guys," Gearbox head of marketing Steve Gibson told the London Games Festival blog.

    Well that's not true.

    In my experience Games for Windows Live is inelegant and rubbish. Just drop that and keep Steam in my opinion, barring a massive GFW overhaul that makes it not awful.

  • kar #14 2 years ago

    Well the best way is for GfWL to die as soon as possible.

    That would be best.

  • subedii #15 2 years ago

    Come to think of it, I'm not sure I can think of a single PC game where the store bought version can't play with the same playerbase as the online bought version. Even if you're not using Steamworks or GFWL, it doesn't make any sense to have that kind of separation.

    I mean, Blizzard doesn't divide BNet players into "loyal subjects who purchase direct from the Overmind" and the "Filthy Meatspace buying Peasants".

  • darkmorgado #16 2 years ago

    Said it before and will say it again: GFW:L should be absorbed into Steam (at least make Steam achievements compatible with LIVE achievements), and Steam should come pre-loaded with every windows PC. Valve stay independent but become a licensed third party.

    There you go, Microsoft. I just singlehandedly saved the PC gaming market.

  • Tomo #17 2 years ago

    STOP SAYING FUCKING SIMPLES

  • brod #18 2 years ago

    "We want people to be able to play together and right now if a guy buys a game on Games for Windows and a guy buys a game on Steam - they can't play together. If another guy bought it in a retail store, he can't play with the first two guys,"

    ^ That is simply not true. He is confusing Games for Windows with Games for Windows Live, and Steam with Steamworks.

    If a game uses GFWL for DRM/matchmaking, the retail version will have it, and the Steam version will have it, and they will all be playing together.

    Likewise for Steamworks, except some digital distributors refuse to sell Steamworks games because it requires the client of their competitor.

    This article makes EG look bad - incorrect information isn't newsworthy.
    Edited by brod at 11/10/10 @ 10:03

  • r4z0rbl4d3 #19 2 years ago

    Why would ANYONE EVER buy a game on GfW!?!??

  • Machetazo #20 2 years ago

    I can understand Microsoft, but why is a publisher like Valve not breaking down these walls? A Steam-only game's just as segregating.

    All Seeing Eye is no more, though? :( That was a really handy doodad to have around. Down with GFWL. An unwanted idea, in that, terribly executed.

  • cw- #21 2 years ago

    You can play together no problem..ish. You just can't chat cross systems.

    The game servers have nothing to do with Steam/ GFWL

  • Keivz #22 2 years ago

    @brod

    I'm constantly amazed at how ignorant the gaming news world shows itself to be on everything PC gaming related.

  • Skurmedel #23 2 years ago

    Tomo: Haha... I knew somebody would get upset. It's simples.

    I think it's far more annoying when people want to monetize their congruent markets and emphasize lateral revenue streams.
    Edited by Skurmedel at 11/10/10 @ 11:03

  • Shinetop #24 2 years ago

    I think it's far more annoying when people want to monetize their congruent markets and emphasize lateral revenue streams.

    And because of that, you're encouraging people to kill off any competition for Valve? Yeah, way to go.

  • Spekingur #25 2 years ago

    Freaking meerkats.

    I like GfWL. Possibly because those games have Achievements that add to my GS :-P
    Edited by Spekingur at 11/10/10 @ 11:12

  • Sunyavadin #26 2 years ago

    For those bitching about GFWL - remember, GFWL is just a tiny little fragment of the much LARGER Xbox Live.

    CLEARLY it's never going to take off as a distribution platform, as Steam has cornered the PC market, BUT - it acts to allow cross-platform linkage of your friends lists and game tracking.

    THIS is where integrating the two is not a bad idea, NOR is it FUCKING ROCKET SCIENCE, PEOPLE.

    I, for example, cancelled my PC preorder for New Vegas when I found it wouldn't track on my Live achievements list. I can get the superior PC version at a later date, FAR cheaper, after completing it on 360 where my achievement list for Fallout 3 and New Vegas will be unified.

    How hard would it be though, to write a little bit of code to track your Live profile via Steam? And vice versa?
    It's not like it hasn't been done before. Bungie, now an independent studio, have integration with their website's profile tracking system and Live. Many third party offerings already EXIST to do this. Like facebook/phone apps.

    If I could log into Xbox Live and have a tab that displays my Steam friendslist and achievements, and log into Steam and have a tab displaying it for Live, then I might have the incentive to start buying stuff on Steam more, rather than having two segregated communities. Likewise, I'm sure several Steam users considering a console might have more interest in buying one which tracks their Steam friends and achievements.

    EVERYONE WINS.

  • Skurmedel #27 2 years ago

    Shinetop: What the fuck are you talking about?

    How did you extract that from what I think is annoying corporate speak? It was completely off-topic.

  • neems #28 2 years ago

    Apparently it's not the gaming news world that's the problem, it's developers who know nothing about how pc gaming works. Supposedly Randy Pitchfork and GabeN know each other pretty well, so hopefully Gabe will be on the phone right now calling Randy a penis.

    Also, this is coming from the people who used Gamespy to make the world's least user friendly co-op experience.

  • Kami #29 2 years ago

    I dunno, GfWL is a nice idea but it was clearly a bit late to the party - all shiny and glammed up but everyone was inside having a ball already...

    As for the tracking, I kind of agree. But at the same time, as addictive as achievements are, I still prefer the game to stand on its own two feet... if and when achievements can be linked, woohoo. But it's a tiny tiny problem in the grander scheme of things.

  • mkreku #30 2 years ago

    Am I the only one in the entire world who prefers GfWL over Steam? The games I have with GfWL have been flawless and I've only logged in ONCE and then it's kept itself in the background.

    When I want to play a Steam game, it first takes forever to start up and login to Steam, and sometimes it just doesn't want to login at all, which keeps me from entering the game at all.

  • subedii #31 2 years ago

    @Kami: I'd say it was more that GFWL was a nice idea, but it was and remains poorly executed.

    If any company has the resources and technical capability to challenge Steam for a community system, it's Microsoft. They aren't interested in giving GFWL the investment it needs.

    GFWL could be great, if only for the prospect of real cross-platform play, but not even Microsoft is interested in trying to make that a core feature anymore, so why should anyone else care? And that's leaving aside all its other problems.
    Edited by subedii at 11/10/10 @ 11:50

  • Kami #32 2 years ago

    I think my original comment alludes to that my goiod friend... if you turn up late to the red carpet you're not doing the basics right :)

    I do agree if they could make it cross-platform I would be overjoyed, but if not then it may be an expensive moneysink... but then, didn't we learn over the weekend that was the original point of the X-Box Division?

    As for Steam, depends - I don't have many problems with it but I will admit that it does use a surprising amount of resources... but that said, some of the deals are utterly brilliant, so meh... the program itself could use a bit of tweaking, but they shouldn't take away their regular offers, deals and bundles.

  • Skurmedel #33 2 years ago

    I agree, GFWL would be useful, but it isn't. First off it behaves like something on the XBox, it's awkward on the PC. The UI is in my opinion, really bad. Why do I have to click fifteen times to invite someone to a game? Why does everything consist of giant buttons, with sluggish animations? Secondly their matchmaking causes all kinds of problems for people with restrictive routers. And why do I have to login every time I want to play singleplayer lest I be in some kind of user account limbo. Of course you need to log in with Steam too, but it's just once, not every time I start a game, somehow I find it more frustrating.

  • Shinetop #34 2 years ago

    How did you extract that from what I think is annoying corporate speak? It was completely off-topic.

    In that case you unwittingly made a completely appropriate remark. Amazingly, you were making an insightful comment by being an idiot.

  • Sunyavadin #35 2 years ago

    @mkreku

    You're not the only one. I've had tons of trouble in the past with getting the same error on every single game on Steam, regardless of developer, indicating the problem is with Steam. It's really put me off investing in Steam games, since don't want to find all my PC games rendered unplayable at the same time.

    A recent platform update made my Steam games work again, but I have no guarantee they won't break again. If Live goes down, on the other hand, my games still work, and update my Live profile the moment it goes back up.
    Edited by Sunyavadin at 11/10/10 @ 13:19

  • hiddenranbir #36 2 years ago

    I remember back in the day when this was possible. Now these community networks are essentially applying console thinking to the PC industry, closing games into gated communities.

  • KDR_11k #37 2 years ago

    Why talk to GFWL? Nobody should put that into a game in first place.

  • Snixtor #38 2 years ago

    Then why is it that Borderlands (a Gearbox game) is the only game I've bought in the last 10 years or so that I haven't been able to get to connect for a multiplayer game. I looked up info on "connection issues" with this game and the problems are rampant! Port-forwarding? Please, that's so 20th century (and besides, it didn't work anyway).

    If anybody needs to be schooled in the ways of connecting multiplayer games, it's Gearbox.