Forza fans turn on Turn 10

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 5 October, 2010

UPDATE: MS "evaluating" situation.

UPDATE: Microsoft has just issued Eurogamer the following statement:

"Right now 'Stig's Garage Car Pack' is only available through the purchase of the Forza Motorsport 3 Ultimate Collection. We are evaluating if and how we release the collection independent of the retail bundle and will have more to share soon."

ORIGINAL STORY: Forza fans have exploded in anger over the planned release of new cars exclusive to the Ultimate Collection of Forza 3.

Hundreds of comments litter Turn 10's blog post discussing the 10 new cars to be included in the Collection, due out on 29th October.

Last month BBC telly show Top Gear signed a "long-term" deal to collaborate on all future Forza Motorsport racing games, the first fruits of which will be evident in the Collection.

It'll include 90 minutes of edited Top Gear telly, access to Stig's Garage Car Pack - The Koenigsegg CCX, LEXUS LFA, and Mercedes Benz SLS-AMG - and an Xbox Live Top Gear theme.

The Collection bundles all of the DLC released to date. That totals around 500 cars, including 10 cars that will only be found via the Ultimate Collection.

It is the 10 exclusive cars that have driven Turn 10's community up the wall.

"Wow, so is T10 actually trying to see how much they can crap on the community that is supposedly the heart of the Forza experience?" wrote manc4life7.

"I just love that the ONLY new info on the FUC is that we were all mistaken - ALL 10 new cars are only to be found in the new edition. Wow. Just, wow."

DEADMAN GT said: "I see that they are still not catering to their current fanbase still. Hmmmm. I love Top Gear and this would be great if we could get it as DLC, but this is really taking the mickey."

And a clearly disappointed Shortt Sirket wrote: "Come on guys! I am trying to pull for you, I really am. But when you give us NO information, it gets a bit hard. Any news on the Forzalopnik Pack? Any info if these exclusive cars will be available as DLC for current owners?

"That is all we want. Just give us some info instead of blindly ignoring your user base with these practically content-free updates. We have been waiting over eight months for the Forzalopnik pack and with GT5 looming on the horizon, it is getting harder and harder to care for much longer."

Turn 10 is currently working on a Kinect-enabled Forza game, unveiled at E3 2010.

Eurogamer has contacted Microsoft for comment and will update if it chooses to respond.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (99) Latest comment 5 months ago

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  • jonsaan #1 2 years ago

    Is this not just a pre emptive strike at GT5's rumoured Top Gear Track inclusion?

  • AnsemsApprentice #2 2 years ago

    "Wow, so is T10 actually trying to see how much they can crap on the community that is supposedly the heart of the Forza experience?" wrote manc4life7.

    I don't know why that made me laugh so much.

  • joelstinton #3 2 years ago

    it seems like a rather shoddy attempt at getting some more buyers before gt5 is released. the people that will be playing this won't be new gamers, the core fan of forza are already there, and should it those players that should be rewarded.

    its also seems that its rather pathetic attempt to lure gamers in with the top gear licesnce as well, theres not really much there to do with it either?

  • Badassbab #4 2 years ago

    I don't mind if it's a timed exclusive like the Collectors edition 'exclusive' cars. I suspect it will be released later on.

  • TopKatt #5 2 years ago

    The whole Top Gear connection is the only thing putting me off getting Forza, can't bear the three twats who present it.

  • MavSkipper #6 2 years ago

    I'll take the track. The Stig can keep his collection.

  • paulf #7 2 years ago

    gran tourismo is out next month

  • Cronan #8 2 years ago

    Hell hath no fury like a Forza fan scorned.

  • theonlyix #9 2 years ago

    Chill, the cars will be available as dlc a little while after release.... They always are, just look at the vip cars...

  • altitude2k #10 2 years ago

    Literally hundreds of comments?! Wow.

  • nuanimal #11 2 years ago

    Bad Turn10. It would've been nice to have the 10 cars as DLC.

    I'd imagine there would be a healthier margin on DLC sales than boxed too? With software you make it, place it in the marketplace and when you sell your in. But with a boxed product you make it, manufacture it, ship it, and then have to hope it sells?

  • StarchildHypocrethes #12 2 years ago

    Nnnnnneeeeeerrrrrrrrrdddddd raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggeeee!

  • VandelayIndustries #13 2 years ago

    @joelstinton
    Yeah, shitting on your hard won fanbase cultivated over many years isn't too clever. Especially when it's obviously a tit-for-tat marketing move with the competition.

  • dagas #14 2 years ago

    There's like 400 cars in the original game. Who needs DLC? I've only used a handful anyway. Remember when driving games had 1-3 cars to choose from?

  • tachometer #15 2 years ago

    The problem is Forza is a unique racing game in that the developers rely on the fanbase to create content for it, ie. the custom liveries and setups. To turn around to those people who so desperately want the DLC that has been promised them and say "thanks but we want to make a little more money by making you buy the game twice" is shooting yourself in the foot.

  • pinebear #16 2 years ago

    Puntastic.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #17 2 years ago

    I am already fed up by all those platinum editions, game of the year editions etc. that pack in all the DLC. It seems like with every big game you buy at launch you get shafted just a bit. Of course you still have the luxury of playing it as soon as it gets out but it's already common practice and I often find myself just passing on games because I know I can get a better version later for half the price.

    However, at least getting a game early so far has never meant that you are missing out on something, even if it's just cars. Then again cars are pretty pivotal for a racing game like Forza.

  • menage #18 2 years ago

    I don't really se the point. Anybody who was interested now already bought the game, especially since it's dead cheap now. Like anybody who hasn't bought is suddenly going to because of 10 extra cars.

  • Psychotext #19 2 years ago

    Wow... 10 cars that I can't get, 1 of which is already in the game.

    I may have to cry myself to sleep tonight.

  • 8bitMofo #20 2 years ago

    Good things come to those who wait, biatches!

    Just got to wait for the Multi-Mafia 2 bundle now....

  • swissorc #21 2 years ago

    I agree the game is way too big for me as it stands I don't think I'll ever "complete it" I feel sorry for the guy's who see Forza like others see FIFA eg something the pour hours and hours into evey day or month. Personally I would be on it alot more often but too lazy to keep swapping disc with fifa at the mo. Shame because my clio V6 was sweet and my 4 wheel drive corrado.

  • Cronan #22 2 years ago

    Bitching about DLC coming out cheaper after a year or more is silly. If a DLC pack seems good value at the time, buy it, if not, don't. The people crying about "noobs paying less" are just being silly.

    That said, making loyal customers buy the whole game again to get the "exclusive" vehicles is bad business, they need to release the extra cars as cheapish DLC at the same time.

  • Toothball #23 2 years ago

    I had expected a DLC pack to coincide with this new edition, but I can't say I'm all that concerned if it doesn't arrive. New cars are nice, but I've found more than enough to keep me going on the disc. I'd be more interested in new track DLC over cars, as so far I've only bothered with the Nurburgring track but none of the cars.

  • homerramone #24 2 years ago

    Im sure the 10 cars will appear as paid DLC sooner or later. The cars that came with the special edition were meant to be exclusive and months later there they were as paid DLC.

    Shame theres already too many cars anyway - more tracks is what it needs - and if they did a deal with top gear then the top gear tracks should be there too..

    I also cant believe they are pissing about with a kinect version. I mean I dont like the idea of kinect tbh, but i can see people would.. but for a racing game.. come on.. waste of time

  • jag10 #25 2 years ago

    just buy Gran Tourismo 5:

    more cars
    Nascar
    Rally
    Day/night
    Weather change
    Map editor.
    and so much more.

    no wonder they quickly released it, it's only like a quarter of GT5.

  • captain_desperado #26 2 years ago

    This and the lack of decent wheel options (my MS wheel is on it's way out and apparently out of production so can't be replaced) are swinging me into getting a PS3 and GT5 shortly. This will mean selling my 360 to fund it but being I mostly want racing games MS are forcing my hand.

  • peteb #27 2 years ago

    I'm sure they'll release them after the Ultimate Collection has launched. I guess they think "No point telling people now that the exclusive stuff will be available later anyway. "

  • themorganator #28 2 years ago

    @Captain_Birdseye

    No offence mate, but you're so wrong. I spent a considerable time on GT5 (both normal and in 3D) at the eurogamer expo and whilst it does look awesome, dynamically there's no advantage over Forza. To be clear, I'm no Forza fanboy but having played both titles, GT5 certainly doesn't blow Forza out of the water. I love all car games (F1 2010 in particular) but you're dreaming if you think Polyphony are going to be releasing the best racing game ever. That title remains with Richard Burns rally!

    Bring on the pathetic fanboy rage.

  • Sunworship #29 2 years ago

    Whatever way you slice it, this is a betrayal of their precious community.welcome to capitalism folks!

    i bet the order to do it this way (ie dont tell the existing customers that itll be available as dlc after a few months in the knowledge that the most dedicated will buy it) came down from the top brass who are eyeing a lovely big dividend on their shares this year!

    **Also if one of the dlc cars is a class leader itll be necessary to buy the thing in order to compete online. **

  • coolbritannia #30 2 years ago

    The GT games are fine games but in some ways (note: not all) they don't compete with Forza. If anything, Forza has stolen the sim crown from GT.

    But Turn 10 can kiss my ass if they think I'm buying this, I got VIP edition at launch, that should mean all content.

  • optimusprym8 #31 2 years ago

    why are they all complaining? Everyone only drives one car online anyway ;)

  • IronGiant #32 2 years ago

    It's clearly a cynical attempt to spoil the GT5 launch, not that it will have any impact as GT fans will buy the GT5 regardless. Wish these guys were focussing on a new forza instead of Kinect!

  • Mr_Brown #33 2 years ago

    Forza fans have been turning on turn 10 for a long time now. Mainly for banning anyone who says anything negative on their forums about the game, to absurd and unfair bans from the online features of the game. Turn 10 really seem to be trying very hard to milk their community dry of money offering very little suppport at all.

    The fact that the only new addition to Forza 4 is kinect, something no fan wants just says it all. Turn 10 only care about making money and not making games.

  • Machiavellian #34 2 years ago

    The fact that the only new addition to Forza 4 is kinect, something no fan wants just says it all. Turn 10 only care about making money and not making games.

    I find that fans do not know what they want until someone gives it to them. You really do not know if you want Kinect support until you see what Turn 10 do with Kinect. It could be crappy or it could be the killer app.

    Game of the Year product has exclusive content want to sell a little more maybe even reach out to people who did not purchase the game. Silly to think those new cars will not be within a pack a month later since this is something Turn 10 has done for years. Pissing and moaning that you do not get this pack day one just show the mentality of gamers. Let Turn 10 turn a buck, most developers need it. The precious pack will be released later.

  • coolbritannia #35 2 years ago

    Machiavellian - just no.

    They've released a tonne of dlc for this game, and made a pretty penny from the lot. This is an underhand, greedy move from Turn10. Sure, release the ultimate edition, but give the hardcore faithful, the one's who cared enough to buy the game ON LAUNCH DAY, their reward too. Another sad example of how gaming is in my opinion going down the shitter.

  • Cherub007 #36 2 years ago

    I got Forza last year. I went on the website and discovered that it apparently existed solely for people to articulately and passionately vent their venal loathing of Turn 10 in as extreme a manner as possible. I was quite taken aback.

  • septimus #37 2 years ago

    Nice, so my collectors edition from the first time around seems even more pointless. The USB stick is okay but come on.

  • ouchio #38 2 years ago

    g r a n t u r i s m o 5

  • LiamK #39 2 years ago

    @TopKatt

    "The whole Top Gear connection is the only thing putting me off getting Forza, can't bear the three twats who present it. "

    Er, so you've not bought a game that's been out for over a year because of a deal with a TV show that you hate that was announced a week ago?

  • TopKatt #40 2 years ago

    @LiamK

    I didn't get an Xbox until a week ago.
    Edited by TopKatt at 05/10/10 @ 16:53

  • RobTheBuilder #41 2 years ago

    @coolbritannia I paid about £50 for ltd edition, a price that was down to £25 in less than two months!

    I understand the anger, if you play Forza 3 every week you'd expect to be given top priority, or at least not feel you are missing out on content that could extend the games lifespan!

  • beatwolf #42 2 years ago

    the whole fucking game industry could use some communication consultants instead of the assholes

  • WinterSnowblind #43 2 years ago

    I see no reason to rage over this, but I do have a problem with DLC in general. I supported the game from the start, buying the LCE, as I do for many games I really like. Why don't the early adopters get any kind of special deals in regard to DLC? Why is it the ones who wait and buy the game when it's dirt cheap bundled with everything altogether who get rewarded?

    It's a very messed up system and has completely put me off buying games brand new, nevermind limited editions. New Vegas, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, etc.. I'll gladly 6 months and pay a fraction of the price.

  • wobbly_Bob #44 2 years ago

    I just don't get it. You have like 500 cars to play with already? Why would you care if they release a game with 10 cars you don't have?????????? There are a lot of things to worry about in life, and if all you have to worry about is frothing at the mouth because you can't have 10 pretend cars to play with around your virtual race tracks then you are either really lucky or a sad fucking nerd sitting alone in your pants who is in need of some serious growing up to do... Get a life.
    Edited by wobbly_Bob at 05/10/10 @ 17:11

  • No1fan1977 #45 2 years ago

    MS and Turn 10 are doing a fine job destroying what was a promising franchise.

    Forza 3 was rushed to market and while it garnered good reviews the bugs were readily apparent, hidden driving aids numbed the experience and the lack of wheel support continued.

    Now we see the very community that has stuck with Forza 3 being dumped on with this Top Gear special edition, meanwhile the Jalopnik DLC pack that car enthusists have been waiting for in nowhere to be seen, and the team has been pushed into developing a ridiculous Kinect enabled Forza 3.5.

    Great opportunity missed, lets see what the competition deliver.
    Edited by No1fan1977 at 05/10/10 @ 17:17

  • photoboy #46 2 years ago

    How can it be Stig's Garage when the Stig has been fired? Or does this mean we're getting a new Stig when the next series starts?

  • kongzi #47 2 years ago

    I am a nerd and very mad at the company for being a company and trying to make as much money as possible!!!! RAAH! I of course absolutely have no self control whatsoever so I must buy everything they make anyway anyhow, even if it's 1 car for 1200 points. I am very happy that those points also buy me the right to behave like a total prick on the internet and mouth off to hardworking people, but then again that also makes me realize i'm actually mad at myself for having a shitty job and one hell of a game-addiction/fanboy complex..

    With fans like that I'm surprised turn 10 didn't start screwing them over earlier.

  • Machetazo #48 2 years ago

    @Winter: Why is it the ones who wait and buy the game when it's dirt cheap...etc.

    A: Because, it allows to accomodate anybody without a net connection, and, because it contributes to extra shelf life of a waning game that's been available for a while (permitting a price reset to much closer original RRP, at little cost to its makers). It also, reunites the online community. The have-nots become the haves, overnight, but they don't have those extra months of familiarity, and just time spent enjoying playing that the loyalists will have. Initially, they're unlikely to be at the level of play, early adopters will probably be.

  • Bonders99 #49 2 years ago

    "We are evaluating if and how we release the collection independent of the retail bundle and will have more to share soon."

    Actual meaning - "Hmm, how do we get out of this self made mess ?".

  • dylman #50 2 years ago

    Most likely MS are just "evaluating" whether the lost sales from having no exclusive new content in the Top gear edition is outweighed by the sales of a separate DLC pack for existing owners.
    Edited by dylman at 05/10/10 @ 17:40

  • coolbritannia #51 2 years ago

    wobbly_bob, this is a CarPG, a car collectors game. They know damn well what people get out of it, they want every vehicle in the game.

    photoboy, I expect the BBC are now contractually obliged to continue with a stig character due to all this licencing, who knows though?

  • Mr_Brown #52 2 years ago

    @Machiavellian

    Thats not correct, to some extent that may be so, but the simple fact is that Kinect has no place in Forza. The fans who use the steering wheel want realism and Kinect will be a step back from that. How can it be more realistic driving simulator if you take away the steering wheel. The same can be said about looking around the car using motion sensors, who would want that, other than for the first 5 seconds of a race before you start the engine and race? Theres a big difference between gamers not knowing whats good for them and not meeting their needs.

    As for the DLC, it is over priced, but taking aside that if you look at the content, most of the those cars are what fans requested before if was released. Also taking into account how they have bent over backwards to please their American fans by making most of the tracks from the US, despite most of the best (and most requested tracks were from Europe).

    Turn 10 has no interest in its community and that's a massive shame considering its Forza community that makes the game great. The move to Kenect just proves that for me, an add on that no gamer wants, but attracts developers with Wii like sales. Its pretty obvious where there priorities are.

  • ronuds #53 2 years ago

    Wait... this kind of thing is suddenly unique?

    I'm not saying people don't have the right to be upset, but it isn't like this is the first time something like this has happened.

  • Der_tolle_Emil #54 2 years ago

    I'm not saying people don't have the right to be upset, but it isn't like this is the first time something like this has happened.

    I'm not saying this is definitely the first time this has happend but at the moment I can't think of any other game that has done this before.

  • Machiavellian #55 2 years ago

    They've released a tonne of dlc for this game, and made a pretty penny from the lot. This is an underhand, greedy move from Turn10. Sure, release the ultimate edition, but give the hardcore faithful, the one's who cared enough to buy the game ON LAUNCH DAY, their reward too. Another sad example of how gaming is in my opinion going down the shitter.

    What is greedy about a move that helps the dev bring in more money. People act like a development company makes money and it just sit there collecting interest in a bank somewhere. Continued revenue helps a development company pay their employees salaries, give them raises and maybe let them continue to provide content for their games. Most developers slave day and night without overtime hoping their game sell so they can get a bonus for all their hard work. Gamers expect them to just create content and give it away free as if the time and money spent to make the content doesn't exist. I believe there is some crazy belief that a lot of developers drive around in Mercedes and make 6 figure or better salaries.

    What I find greedy is the fans. Oh, I have to have it now mentality and you better make it a dollar. Oh you are shitting on us because you want to make money and keep your jobs. Oh we bought your game so we deserve every demand we make even if it hurts you as a company. Instead maybe if the fans thought about the devs more, showed their support instead of demanding all the time, stuff like this would be free. The problem is, if you make something free, then the expectations is that everything you make must be free.

    What I usually see from fan sites is a lot of bitching/complaining and demanding. Oh we are your fans you should treat us with candy and ice cream everyday. Oh if your company doesn't make money and go under, it sucks to be you. Even if Turn 10 provided this content as DLC along with the UC edition, you would still have bitching. Instead, the fans would be saying it should be free or only cost a dollar.

    Fans want to be respected but they act like Prima Donna's. Only caring about themselves and their NEEDS never trying to understand nothing beyond their own wants. Little disappointments flame up into very embarrassing displays like you see on the Turn 10 forum.
    Edited by Machiavellian at 05/10/10 @ 17:57

  • menage #56 2 years ago

    Pretty funny that the GT5 people of all people dare show their heads around here to gloat.

    (And yes I own both consoles and yes I hate both GT5 and Forza, I'll take BLUR anyday, it's just the hypocrisy which kills me)
    Edited by menage at 05/10/10 @ 17:52

  • tinners #57 2 years ago

    Does that mean kinect forza will cost?

    Best not!!

  • coolbritannia #58 2 years ago

    Machiavellian, are you trolling or serious? Because if you are serious, you're a capitalists dream. Tell you what, why don't you buy us all the Top Gear edition, sure, it's £40 for 10 new cars but they worked hard for it.

  • Machiavellian #59 2 years ago

    Thats not correct, to some extent that may be so, but the simple fact is that Kinect has no place in Forza. The fans who use the steering wheel want realism and Kinect will be a step back from that.

    This is why fans can be hurtful to a company and a game. It's always what they want. You should only do things that PLEASE us because we are your fans. Anything we feel does not please us, then you should not do.

    Fans box a developer into a corner and demand they stay their. I do not know if Kinect will make the next Forza game good bad or ugly, what I do know is that Turn 10 should do what they feel is best for the series. It's up to them to make it work

  • menage #60 2 years ago

    Or just don't fucking buy it.

    Come one, 10 cars, all good and well, but is it really that frustrating to not get them at once and for free? Everybody knows in 3 moths these will be for sale on marketplace.

    The game is damn near a year and a half old. Sony really won't be giving shit away either I'll bet after that period. They're gojng to milk it on some point just as well. They all do, just vote with the wallet, which will probably result in no updates than paid for ones instead. Take your pick.
    Edited by menage at 05/10/10 @ 18:06

  • Machiavellian #61 2 years ago

    Thats not correct, to some extent that may be so, but the simple fact is that Kinect has no place in Forza. The fans who use the steering wheel want realism and Kinect will be a step back from that.

    This is why fans can be hurtful to a company and a game. It's always what they want. You should only do things that PLEASE us because we are your fans. Anything we feel does not please us, then you should not do.

    Fans box a developer into a corner and demand they stay their. I do not know if Kinect will make the next Forza game good bad or ugly, what I do know is that Turn 10 should do what they feel is best for the series. It's up to them to make it work and a success.

  • coolbritannia #62 2 years ago

    The fans aren't demanding this content is free, they're demanding it as dlc at least.

  • curtlikesmeat #63 2 years ago

    Interesting that EG would report on a community up in arms, pity they didn't do it last year when the entire Fifa community was calling for a patch and one didn't come.

  • tinners #64 2 years ago

    Hell.....why not buy 2 copies just for shits and giggles, were not in an economic crisis or anything.

    Might just buy another EA code incase I fancy playing a second hand game of FIFA11 online :p

    Still fine as long as the dev comes out smelling like roses

    Edited by tinners at 05/10/10 @ 18:14

  • Machiavellian #65 2 years ago

    Machiavellian, are you trolling or serious? Because if you are serious, you're a capitalists dream. Tell you what, why don't you buy us all the Top Gear edition, sure, it's £40 for 10 new cars but they worked hard for it.

    No, what I am is a person who develop software and understand that for some reason people believe my efforts and work doesn't cost money. Oh, it's not a physical product, you should sell it or give it away. Your statement is right on point with how most gamers think. What about the Top Gear license, I am sure the TV show sold it to them for free. I am sure one developer created all 10 cars and was an intern. I am sure that intern QA, tested spent all the time getting the sound right, dashboard, etc. I am sure developers just sit at their desk collecting your Hard earned money and the company they work for do not have bills to pay.

    Personally, I rarely purchase any DLC but I also do not cry that it's not free or that another addition of the game comes out with more content then the one I bought.

  • Brev2034 #66 2 years ago

    @joelstinton I totally agree with your comment I bought the game twice first the normal version then the collectors edition n then I bought all the car packs so yeah the existing user base should be awarded these new cars for free

  • Stuz359 #67 2 years ago

    Surely they will just release it at a later date as DLC? This 'exclusive' stuff is just to get people to cough up money for it, it's done all the time in any business.

  • menage #68 2 years ago

    @Astro

    My viewpoint is exactly the same right there. Like I said, bioth games don't work for me. But comparing a 10 car DLC pack to all the fucking blunders GT5 did the last 5 years is really stretching it. Come back if you actually played the damn thing instead of just having a PS3 and finally having that shot at revenge with a game nobody actually has had a pleasure to play yet in full form., cause that's where most are coming from imo.

    Who knows what GT5 fucks up in the end. The game is never going to be the full thing everybody wants I'm sure. Like Forza also never was. You can gloat if it does turn out to be perfect. but not with a game which isn't even out yet.
    Edited by menage at 05/10/10 @ 18:59

  • Der_tolle_Emil #69 2 years ago

    This is why fans can be hurtful to a company and a game. It's always what they want. You should only do things that PLEASE us because we are your fans. Anything we feel does not please us, then you should not do.

    Fans box a developer into a corner and demand they stay their. I do not know if Kinect will make the next Forza game good bad or ugly, what I do know is that Turn 10 should do what they feel is best for the series. It's up to them to make it work and a success.

    Normally I would agree with that but not in this case. Turn 10 can do what the hell they want with Kinect but Forza is and always was a simulation. It is impossible to get the same experience with Kinect as with a wheel, regardless of how fantastic Kinect might turn out. This is an integral part of the Forza franchise and I think fans do very well have the right to ask that the game stays true to its simulation roots. This is not a trivial change like the setting in a FPS game or something like that.

    That said I highly doubt that Turn 10 will ever replace the steering wheel with Kinect. I think they are way too enthusiastic about cars and the game and Forza 4 will have the same focus like the previous games wich Kinect being an additional control method. Nothing wrong with that.

    Also, a bit more on topic, since most posts are wandering off in a completely different direction:

    The fans aren't demanding this content is free, they're demanding it as dlc at least.

    This is what this is really about. I would happily pay the regular DLC price for the additional cars but I will not pay full (even if budget) price just because I have to buy 99% of the game again.

  • SavageEvil #70 2 years ago

    Well considering the cluster fudge that FM3 is online, I suggest Turn10 do something. Asking for more money for a whole game which is basically the same damn game, but will all the DLC included is a bit of a short arms and deep pockets. Last I checked Turn10 is a first party dev, they get their money from parent MS. Yet still they have not fixed the online lobbies, which is an integral part of FM3. I find it ridiculous that they will only offer the cars in the ultimate edition of FM3, so what do the people who put that game on the map get? To go out and spend another 60 on a game they already bought once, this will probably be out in the marketplace depending on how good or badly the Ultimate edition sells, the worse it performs the faster they will send it to the marketplace. It's all about making money here, Turn 10 won't gain any new fans with the Ultimate Edition unless it's priced lower than the normal price. If they haven't bought the game by now, they more than likely never heard of it or care for it.

    Kinect should not be used in FM for driving, as holding air is ridiculous and gimmicky. What will make sense is probably walking around and taking a look at the car and things pertaining to the car being stationary. Casuals might get a kick out of driving with it, but seriously that isn't for the core players. Well I will not be buying this until it shows up in the marketplace.

  • linea #71 2 years ago

    Yeah, I don't think the anger is solely about the new cars- it's also about the fact that the 'fan service' DLC pack with more older and quirky cars seems to have been shelved in favour of content which excludes loyal fans.

    I've been looking forward to the shelved(?) DLC as while there are a lot of cars in the game the number of older sports cars etc is more limited

  • paulf #72 2 years ago

    they'll be even more annoyed if the 10 cars are fastest in their class

  • lockload #73 2 years ago

    Suprise wuprise another anti MS post by wesley theres at least one a day

  • man.the.king #74 2 years ago

    @Machiavellian

    Mate, I'm not a Forza fan (I like GT), but even I get what most people on here are asking for: they are NOT asking for free content, they are asking for the ability to BUY the additional content WITHOUT having to buy ANOTHER COPY of the game they currently possess.

    Does that seem like an outrageous demand to you?

    (And don't throw that ridiculous software developer comment at me - I'm a software engineer as well, with more than 11 years experience under my belt).

  • The-Bodybuilder #75 2 years ago

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but.......aren't MS in charge of marketing and not T10?
    I mean, we're talking about a company that charges for free DLC (L4D2) on xbox live, when its free on PC. Not really surprising really.

  • lucky_jim #76 2 years ago

    Further to the update: I'm furious, nay LIVID, as someone who was planning to buy this edition of the game, that MS and Turn 10 are thinking of making the extra cars available to all and sundry. How do I get to show off to the foolish oiks who bought earlier versions? This is OUTRAGEOUS!

    Nah I don't care at all really, just wanted to start my own nerd rage gang. Who's in?

  • Machiavellian #77 2 years ago

    Mate, I'm not a Forza fan (I like GT), but even I get what most people on here are asking for: they are NOT asking for free content, they are asking for the ability to BUY the additional content WITHOUT having to buy ANOTHER COPY of the game they currently possess.

    I am not saying the community want free content, I just used that as an analogy that if you give someone what they ask for, then they will ask for something more.

    What I am saying is that most Fans just demand. We bought your game so that give us the right to tell you what to do mentality. It's not a question of if but when these cars will be released but instead of understanding that just maybe Turn 10 spent some money to obtain a license that might please a certain amount of fans and they would like to recoup some of that investment, you get what you see in their forums. One of the many faults of a fanbase is patience.

    (And don't throw that ridiculous software developer comment at me - I'm a software engineer as well, with more than 11 years experience under my belt).

    Then you know where I am coming from. Not a game programmer and what I do is totally different but I deal with customers all the time and they have a lot in common with gamer fanbase. They always demanding upgrades a day late, wanting you to do it for nothing. When you do give it to them for nothing they expect everything now to cost nothing etc. I could go on and on.

  • ronuds #78 2 years ago

    "I'm not saying this is definitely the first time this has happend but at the moment I can't think of any other game that has done this before."

    First thing that came to mind is RE5 only having Move controls for the Gold Edition. Same kind of crap, just different scenario.

  • coolbritannia #79 2 years ago

    Machiavellian, tell us which games you worked on and we'll either avoid or pirate them just to piss you off :-)

    You say you despise fans thinking they are owed something, you're the epitome of what we're rallying against. An egotistical selfish whiner who thinks he has a right to fleece gamers. You sound like Bobby Kotick.

  • man.the.king #80 2 years ago

    @Machiavellian

    "We bought your game so that give us the right to tell you what to do mentality. It's not a question of if but when these cars will be released but instead of understanding that just maybe Turn 10 spent some money to obtain a license that might please a certain amount of fans and they would like to recoup some of that investment, you get what you see in their forums"

    You might have heard a popular quote, "the customer is always right".

    Well, the customer may not always be right but, seeing as all Game Developers CREATE a product, a product they hope and expect to SELL to customers (gamers), the customers certainly have a right to at least be vocal.

    From what I have read in these threads, most of the angry posters here seem to have paid good money for a game they enjoyed, and through three iterations, have supported Turn 10 with their money.

    Now, if T10 are going to turn around and say, whoops, we want more money, but instead of giving you the opportunity to buy your DLC for just (say) 5 pounds/dollars, we will make you feel the need to BUY an additional copy of the game for something like (say) 30-35 pounds/50 dollars just so that you can experience the DLC, then they stand the chance of alienating at least a portion of the same fanbase that have brought them thus far.

    Are you seriously saying that putting out the additional features as DLC at the same time as the new version of the game will lose them money? Or are you just losing sight of the debate in order to try and make some point about developer efforts and what they should be due. (It seems to me as if this developer/customer problem is some personal issue which you have experienced in your professional life and you are trying to shoehorn that argument into this particular situation).
    Edited by man.the.king at 06/10/10 @ 05:19

  • Machiavellian #81 2 years ago

    You say you despise fans thinking they are owed something, you're the epitome of what we're rallying against. An egotistical selfish whiner who thinks he has a right to fleece gamers. You sound like Bobby Kotick.

    And you Sr is totally what I am against. You call it fleecing the gamer but you have the GOD loving right not to purchase something. If the developer did not provide enough value in what they are selling you, you can easily vote with your dollars. It would be fleecing if you bought the product and you HAD to purchase the DLC in order to get the complete game or product.

    Noting is made in a vacuum. Someone had to create the content and it cost money just to have a meeting on whether the content should even be made. If the price per content isn't sufficient, then you show the developer by not purchasing the product. It's that easy. You are not owed anything, just like the developer isn't owed your money no matter what they create.

  • DrStrangelove #82 2 years ago

    Just buy a PS3, everyone.

  • Machiavellian #83 2 years ago

    Well, the customer may not always be right but, seeing as all Game Developers CREATE a product, a product they hope and expect to SELL to customers (gamers), the customers certainly have a right to at least be vocal.

    Actually I have no problems with customers being vocal. I have no problems with customers asking (not demanding) for what they want. What I have a problem with is that you see a lot of fans making demands but not caring about the results. No patience as if what they ask for must be done immediately and everything else must be dropped to please them.

    From what I have read in these threads, most of the angry posters here seem to have paid good money for a game they enjoyed, and through three iterations, have supported Turn 10 with their money.

    Let me ask you this, how far does this loyalty go. If Forza 4 turns out to be a turd, will those same people purchase it. If Forza 3 scored a 5 on this site, would people have gone out and purchase it. The loyalty you speak of has nothing to do with the company but the product. You support the product because of the entertainment it gave you not the DLC you were told was coming. The loyalty of the fan is quick to leave over any disappointment whether real or imagine.

    Are you seriously saying that putting out the additional features as DLC as the same time as the new version of the game will lose them money? Or are you just losing sight of the debate in order to try and make some point about developer efforts and what they should be due.

    No, I am saying that Fans have no patience. It's one of those situation where a company is about to announce a price cut. Websites get wind of the price cut and ask the company and they go no comment. What I am saying is that you know the content is coming, it's just not coming until after the UC hit the shelves. Since it's really a minor bit of content, I see no big deal in waiting for it. It's 10 cars can you honestly tell me that 10 extra cars is incentive for someone who already have the game to go out and purchase the UC addition. I would believe common sense would dictate that this is an upsell to people who might have wanted to get Forza and a bit of extra content would tip them over.

  • gnrlstuart #84 2 years ago

    wait: Microsoft care about its fanbase? yeah, and Justin beiber writes his own songs...

  • coolbritannia #85 2 years ago

    Ah but the fact Turn 10 won't announce any dlc until after the re-release smacks of desperation does it not? If they're not trying to fleece fans, why not announce it now? This is not how a company maintains and grows a fan base.

    I think you're wrong about fan worship of companies, I wouldn't hesitate to buy anything made by Bungie, regardless of genre or review score, same goes for ID and Valve.

  • coolbritannia #86 2 years ago

    'Just buy a PS3, everyone.' - FFS it's not that bad :-)

  • flanker22 #87 2 years ago

    ppl bought a demo for gt5 for $40 you dont see them complaining at having to buy the full game for $60 next month...

    gamers are just cheap bastards really ms didnt do anything wrong.

  • sfp_noodle #88 2 years ago

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but since when did a demo have 60 cars, 5 tracks and a full 16 player online mode. It launched with a £17.99 price tag too. Most 'full' racing games don't have half the amount of cars and only have a few more tracks and charge £22 more for them. Taking all that into consideration, I'd say GT5P was an absolute bargain.

  • coolbritannia #89 2 years ago

    At launch it barely had any features did it? They were all added later, a bit like a beta test?

  • Lunastra78 #90 2 years ago

    I was just wondering how you accelerate/brake with Kinect in race games...

    Could it possibly be done by opening mouth for acceleration and quickly shutting mouth for brake? And perhaps raising left/right eyebrow to gear down/up? And for good measure; a quick headbutt for handbraking?

  • man.the.king #91 2 years ago

    @Lunastra78

    "I was just wondering how you accelerate/brake with Kinect in race games...
    Could it possibly be done by opening mouth for acceleration and quickly shutting mouth for brake? And perhaps raising left/right eyebrow to gear down/up? And for good measure; a quick headbutt for handbraking? "

    A pelvic thrust for acceleration, and jutting your butt out for braking? :)

  • JBlokeUK #92 2 years ago

    There must be someone at Polyphony Digital laughing at this?

    Seems to me as a slight over reaction? And for what, exactly?
    Edited by JBlokeUK at 06/10/10 @ 06:22

  • RedPanda #93 2 years ago

    Post deleted at 14:31:59 28-01-2012

  • Der_tolle_Emil #94 2 years ago

    First thing that came to mind is RE5 only having Move controls for the Gold Edition. Same kind of crap, just different scenario.

    You are of course right, I totally forgot RE5. They really should patch all the versions out there.

  • shamblemonkee #95 2 years ago

    Not surprised, T10 has done an extremely poor job of engaging and updating the playerbase form the start. The car packs they have released have been appreciated (other than the ones sutffed with '10 version of cars already in game), but ther handling of the AWD issue, VIP gift cars and the Jalopnik pack were abysmal..

  • SavageEvil #96 2 years ago

    "At launch it barely had any features did it? They were all added later, a bit like a beta test? "

    GT5 prologue launched with everything that it said on the box, there were updates sent out 1 was to curb the no lift shifting that owners of G25 were abusing to accelerate faster without drawbacks and the second was to add a few new cars to the game. The game is on GT5 prologue Version 3.

    Turn10 has been a little weird with their community as of late, anyone who plays online can attest. Heck at the busiest of times there are about 600 drivers in total online play FM3, down from about a 1,000+ 6-8 months ago. I've heard it, many have gone back to FM2, yea FM3 is that bad. Veteran players went back to the older game in order to not lose their cool with all the mess in FM3 online. AWD supremacy is the biggest pain, along with the performance index abuse then there is the painful way the online lobbies work, some randomly selected mess and some dude is lagging like a bastard. Getting unfairly kicked out of a room, only to take more than 5 attempts just to get back into another room. There are plenty of issues that make this reselling of the same game and not giving those who already own the game a chance to get the "Stig" pack.

    It's all in the name of marketing, they(MS) are trying to make money off FM3 still. We'll have to live with it one way or another this will make it's way to the Marketplace.

  • milky_09 #97 2 years ago

    turn 10 and microsoft. fail.

  • BouFushidara #98 2 years ago

    @Machiavellian

    You my game designing friend need to stop slacking off work and get back to making blockbuster hits.
    And the fans are NOT asking for FREE content, they are asking for the SAME content AS DLC. I got the VIP pack on release day. I even pre-ordered as soon as it was anaounced. I have got every possible bit of DLC there is on there and I'm slightly pissed that Turn 10 are expecting me to buy a whole new game for 10 more cars, a video and a theme.

    We are NOT backing you into a corner. Yes people do expect a lot from you, and yes we do ask for this, that and the other. But mostly it's how to improve the gaming experience. Is it too much to ask that we don't want to play with laggers? Or people racing those God-damn AWD Vipers all the bloody time? It improves the game for everyone so more people buy it.

    We, the loyal fans, who (and I really would) would buy Forza 4 even if it was covered in the developers excrement. Because that is what loyalty means. You don't listen to the press, you trust the developers to do the right job and do right by you.
    This is where T10 have let us down. They completely forgot about the people that have helped them develope their games, both by buying the game and then pointing aspects which they can improve on.

    Yes we want them to make money, and yes want more people to buy the game, and I don't care if some one saves a bit of money getting all the DLC in one go. But I don't like that some one turning up late to the party gets more than I do. Why should I have to fork out in total £120 just to have the perks as the new guy spending half as much?

  • bahron2000 #99 5 months ago

    I love this one, my simulation http://www.1234lab.com/