Valve: XBL patching a "train wreck"

By Robert Purchese Published 10 September, 2010

Admits "total failure" to update TF2.

Valve has admitted its "total failure" to update Team Fortress 2 on Xbox 360, but insisted the fault was Microsoft's.

"We thought that there would be something that would emerge," Valve's leader Gabe Newell told PC Gamer.

"We figured it was a sort of untenable... 'Oh yeah, we understand that these are the rules now, but it's such a train wreck that something will have to change.'"

Team Fortress 2 was released in October 2007 on PC, PS3 and Xbox 360. But whereas the PC game has bulged with significant new content, the Xbox 360 version was left to go stale - despite promises from Valve that a console patch was in the works.

Gabe Newell said Valve won't make the same mistake on PS3.

"That's why we're really happy with the current situation with the PS3," explained Newell. "We're solving it now in a way that is going to work for our customers, rather than assuming something is going to emerge later that will allow us to fix this."

Newell pulled off a rare surprise at E3 this summer when he announced Portal 2 for PS3 - a platform he had criticised heaviliy in the past.

Portal 2 will be released on all three formats - PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 - on 9th February 2011.

Picture of Robert.

About Robert Purchese

Bertie is Eurogamer's Senior Staff Writer. When he's not hunting down news stories he's often found playing with his kids or gabbling about fantasy games and strange online worlds.

Read more articles from Robert by visiting the Robert Purchese archive page.

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Comments (88) Latest comment 1 year ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Arcadiian #1 1 year ago

    Oh dear. /still hanging on for a TF2 360 update.

  • Suttieb #2 1 year ago

    If you fix it they will come!
    Edited by 1 at 10/09/10 @ 13:43

  • Scirvir #3 1 year ago

    I suppose it's Microsoft's fault that they haven't updated the PS3 version of TF2 either...

  • el_pollo_diablo #4 1 year ago

    Sorry to derail the comments thread but if you're in McDonalds at any point, don't bother with the 'M' burger. I'm eating one now and it's a huge disappointment. No ketchup, old lettuce, and stingy on the bacon.

    Anyway, just a PSA for you. Please carry on.

  • Osmond #5 1 year ago

    It wass a shame that TF2 lobbies went empty quickly. I bought the OB 6 months after release and struggled to find a game on tf2. when i did it was amazing fun and one of the best pure MP experiences on 360.(sad its problems killed it off)

  • Widge #6 1 year ago

    I thought the M burger was alright you know

  • Widge #7 1 year ago

    Not a patch on a Big Tasty with bacon though.

  • spekkeh #8 1 year ago

    Being a Source SDK modder who just spent most of the day trying to get his mod to work again, after a sudden Source engine update crippled it... again... I must say this XBL thing sounds like a pretty good premise.

  • richarddavies #9 1 year ago

    They don't half whinge alot this valve lot don't they? Why do they find hard what pretty much every other games company do fine?

  • el_pollo_diablo #10 1 year ago

    Maybe I just got unlucky with my M on this occasion.
    Still, next time it'll be a big tasty all the way. Big tasties NEVER let me down.

  • Arcadiian #11 1 year ago

    @ Osmond. Many people still play TF2 on 360. A tiny amount compared to something like Halo or CoD, but it's still possible to find a decent game. If you want to add me (same name as on here), I'll send you an invite when there's an especially good one going and you're online...

  • justsomeone #12 1 year ago

    it probably *is* microsoft's fault that the PS3 version hasn't been updated, in as much as Valve probably have an agreement to maintain parity between the console versions, similar to a timed-exclusivity deal.

    In other words, they probably signed a document stating that the PS3 version would never have content denied to 360 users.

  • polaris70 #13 1 year ago

    To be honest you can't beat a KFC Zinger burger.

  • scottycam #14 1 year ago

    How about you just get the game right in the first place so it doesn't need weekly patches?

    I'm sure Microsoft aren't stopping Valve from adding new content to TF2 as updates. How many addons has Mass Effect 2 had this year?

  • Der_tolle_Emil #15 1 year ago

    You know, I think I haven't eaten at McDonald's for almost two years now.

    On topic though: It does make me wonder how it can be Microsoft's fault that they haven't brought any patches to either the 360 or the PS3 - especially when other developers are doing just fine (Burnout Paradise, Rock Band)?

    I'm sure it takes more effort to get something out on a console but solely blaming Microsoft sounds like a rather lame excuse.

  • Wheatley #16 1 year ago

    Well at least Valve did release an update for the Xbox version a few weeks back. Even if it didn't offer any of the additional content that's available for PC gamers, it's reasuring to know that they haven't abandoned the console version completely. There's a still a thriving TF2 community on Xbox, testament to the quality of the game, so any new maps or class mods would be very warmly received.

  • braydee89 #17 1 year ago

    It seems that valves attitude towards the consoles is to insult them until they cave in and cater to valves needs.

  • Whitster #18 1 year ago

    So if XBL patching is that awful, how come an average game update takes me 30 secs max, where as PS3 ones take up to 10 minutes?

    Hell, the day I got it home it was 3 hours before I could play anything due to all the updates.

  • richarddavies #19 1 year ago

    polaris70 gets a +1 from me. Zinger tower burger is the way to go.

  • Freek #20 1 year ago

    He's talking about what MS and Sony allow. MS won't allow free content updates, Sony does. Sony also allowed them to bring on Steamworks. That streamlines the procces for Valve since it's thier own platform.

    But there's exception to that rule. If a game is multiplatform and the content is free on PS3, then MS allow it to be free on Xbox aswell. (See Burnout Paradise).
    Since Valve did not develope or support the PS3 version of the Orange box the situation became impossible for them.

    But now that they are developing activly on PS3 and no doubt will give free content to future releases, the Xbox version will now also be able to get them.
    Edited by 1 at 10/09/10 @ 14:18

  • Widge #21 1 year ago

    Yeah, Zinger TOWER, the hash brown makes all the difference.

  • rojjer #22 1 year ago

    Bring back the Ribwich!

  • PlugMonkey #23 1 year ago

    tigerstyle
    "I thought Gabe Newell said that the PS3 is a total failure that should be scrapped and that it's as locked down as a Gamecube and should be more open like a Mac? His words not mine. Funny how a cheque signed by Sony can change a man's opinions so drastically"

    Just throwing this out there, but do you not think there's a chance that maybe the PS3 now isn't as locked down as it was when Newell said that? And that it's now a bit more open?

    I'm not sure when that comment is from, but I do seem to remember Sony were being incredibly dictatorial surrounding the PS3 during their early "We are undefeatable and have a divine right to rule the console market" phase. Then the 360 started outselling it, and they loosened up on a load of stuff.

    Not saying that's what happened, but it's a thought, isn't it? If you think about it, it's a thought.

  • Arwin #24 1 year ago

    People already forgotten that TF2 wasn't even brought to the PS3 by Valve, but by EA and by a different development team? (and only in the Orange bundle I think). Combined with that level of non-committal to the PS3 these were not really the kind of circumstances that were likely to lead to frequent PS3 version patching.

    This situation where Valve themselves are making the PS3 version of Portal 2 and are putting the full SteamWorks works (ha!) into it including Valve's own patch and updating system couldn't be more different.

  • richarddavies #25 1 year ago

    these burgers deserve there own thread. I could recall tasty burgers I like all day.

  • linkster #26 1 year ago

    We've got internet foghorns to thank for this. Those who went into meltdown pre original Xbox launch at the idea of lazy devs shipping shite code and dripping out patches to fix. Trouble is it's not just fixes that go in TU - balancing, adding bits and pieces in response to community feedback, it all gets crushed underfoot unless you pay an intentionally prohibitive amount of money each time.

  • OllyJ #27 1 year ago

    Problem is there is something like a 9mb patch cap, so adding loads of content is not feasable.

  • linkster #28 1 year ago

    4mb. TU isn't meant for adding content, you're supposed to design support for DLC into the original release, there's no charge for adding that, only patching the executable

  • cw- #29 1 year ago

    @Scirvir It was EA who ported the Orange Box to the PS3, not Valve. So at a guess it's down to EA to do the updates..

  • richarddavies #30 1 year ago

    I don't think they bother with the 9mb cap now. I've got battled bad company 2 and that had a free multiplayer patch not too long ago that was about 300mb. There's ways around it.

  • beep #31 1 year ago

    Love the use of the word 'bulged' in an article quoting Gabe Newell :)

  • edhe #32 1 year ago

    Ah, Gabe admits ignorance, failure to comprehend another's system.

    k.

  • Xboxfanuk #33 1 year ago

    Microsoft is making big money on every bit of DLC. They don't make money on updates. I understand how Valve feels, but why don't they release TF2 with all PC updates on arcade. Sell it as cheap as you want. Heck they are selling demos now.

  • Cronan #34 1 year ago

    Jesus Christ, what has Gabe Newell been eating? By the look of it, all the pies, all the cakes and most of his development team.
    Edited by 1 at 10/09/10 @ 14:38

  • PlugMonkey #35 1 year ago

    Considering he made the "locked down" comment at the end of May and he was on stage about 3 weeks later at E3, then no.

    Lol. Fair enough. Sony must have sent the money trucks round. Or they finally just got sick of how utterly fucking useless MS are at letting you support your community.

  • coolbritannia #36 1 year ago

    We get it Gabe, Sony paid you shitloads. Enough.

  • andywilkie35 #37 1 year ago

    Merp, seems to work for every other developer. Maybe Valve are just toilet at getting things out on time. Episode 3 anyone?

    Although their Left 4 Dead patch came out only a year after the game came out, albeit they charged £40 for it.

  • Lord_Gremlin #38 1 year ago

    Well,I'm glad he's supporting PS3 now.

    P.S. It's not like we haven't seen loads of updates and DLC for PS3 games. Look at Little Big Planet. It's PS3's TF2, with costumes instead of hats.

  • spliffhead #39 1 year ago

    A Double Bacon Chilli Cheeseburger with a dash of Garlic Mayonaise from an "Uncle Sams" if there's one near you.

    None of that McKing nonsense.

  • lockload #40 1 year ago

    Funny that other games seem to be just fine at patching

  • drewman5150 #41 1 year ago

    Nope, the Zinger Tower does it for me every time, just not a big fan of the fries from KFC.
    BUT, an Angry Whopper or the Mexicano (or was it Americano?) they did last year at BK - now they were nice!
    Edited by 2 at 10/09/10 @ 15:10

  • canoot #42 1 year ago

    This twat was moaning about the ps3 last year,stick to the pc and release 2 games per decade ya soft twat.

  • Invisible_Cow #43 1 year ago

    This was never about being able to release updates on the 360, it was whether or not MS would let them do it for free. Getting Sony on board should be good for everyone concerned here.

    Still a shame it looks like we'll never get the TF2 updates though :(
    Edited by 1 at 10/09/10 @ 15:21

  • StooMonster #44 1 year ago

    Best burger ever? Four Seasons Hotel Buenos Aires. Hrm...

    On topic, I wonder if PS3 is going to switch from Valve's red-headed-step-child to most loved son simply because of the locked down nature of Xbox Live. I reckon on Sony's platform they are going to do their own Steam style affair with regular updates and enhancements; I think they love the freedom of the Steam-a-like more than "easier" hardware.

  • flippet #45 1 year ago

    Wish I could get Hash Browns at any time of day :(

  • el_pollo_diablo #46 1 year ago

    I love the fact that there are two conversations going on in this thread*, both of which (arguably) relate to Gabe Newell.

    And yeah KFC chips are rubbish.

    * my fault, sorry.

  • Trigga_Tybalt #47 1 year ago

    mmmhhmmm that is a tasty burger!

  • Mopzey #48 1 year ago

    So Gabe,
    You like xbox?
    Hate XBLl?
    Hate PS3?
    Love PSN?

  • jimmyhill11 #49 1 year ago

    I was in New York a while back, and ordered a chilli burger at a grill restaurant.
    I got a burger the size of a football, with a whole plate of chilli con carne on the side. It was tasty

  • djed #50 1 year ago

    heaviliy

  • M1chl #51 1 year ago

    I have to loose my weight and read through these comments and all I seeing here is food food food and Big Hamburgers, I hate you! : D

    Anyway, its pretty interesting hope they u-turned, so I wait till valve games comes to PS3 and will see how thats changes situation on market and on XBLA, etc. But I still hate you with that food discussion : D

  • jefranklin18 #52 1 year ago

    Mmmm. I could murder some hash browns right about now as I have been nursing a hangover all day.

  • Iain815 #53 1 year ago

    Oh come on, If you don't find his sudden love for the PS3 even slightly suspicious you're mental.

  • Iain815 #54 1 year ago

    Also, am I the only one who likes McNuggets?

  • BoffBoff #55 1 year ago

    I'll probably get faded into oblivion for this but I always keep going back to ol' faithful - the Big Mac.
    And the Fillet Tower meal would rule them all, if KFC could sort their chips out.
    Burger King are utter, utter shite. Or at least the one by me is.
    Wimpy were alright, but pricey and sloooooow.

    Also, Gabe needs to make his mind up. And MS need to allow free DLC if the publisher/developer wishes.

  • Vyggo #56 1 year ago

    Bully: It's all microsofts fault

    /points finger at the pimpled shy kid in the corner

  • ryohazuki1983 #57 1 year ago

    Nothing beats the XL bacon double cheeseburger from BK.

  • GamesConnoisseur #58 1 year ago

    Second X2 Bacon CheeseBurger from BK

    Sublime!

    Steamwork should be allowed in some form for XBL or PS3 will get greater advantages over X360 when it's come to Valve's games and beyond.

    Steam are leading the DD revolution and so they are doing something right but to be fair to MS as XBL was likewise very important but going forward into '10s?

  • darc #59 1 year ago

    Next time you're in the U.S. you all owe yourselves a trip to Five Guys. McD's and Burger King aren't even properly "food" compared with this stuff. It hasn't been exported (i.e. force-fed) around the globe yet, and will probably suck by the time it has been - may that day never come.

  • UncleLou #60 1 year ago

    Funny that other games seem to be just fine at patching

    You obviously have no idea of the kind of post-release service Valve deliver.

    They're basically a platform on their own on the PC, of course they can't stand to get bullied with restrictions that limit the time you're allowed to update games, delays through certification, and whatnot.

    Instead of being happy that someone complains about such things, people call him a "whiner". Way to have swallowed your favorite platform's marketing wholesale.
    Edited by 1 at 10/09/10 @ 17:48

  • RevanNL #61 1 year ago

    Well, Criterions free updates for Burnout Paradise were working pretty well, adding a lot of content.

  • Chufty #62 1 year ago

    You're all a bunch of fat bastards. The rapid acceptance of fast food as a regular and sometimes even daily source of nutrition, rather than a rare treat as it was when I was a kid, is a health time-bomb waiting to explode.

    Wait... what was the article about again?

  • patchbox360 #63 1 year ago

    ahem

  • GreatBlackthorn #64 1 year ago

    His issue is that Microsoft only allow a certain amount of content to be released for free, the same issue that was encountered by the developers of Metro 2033 with their Ranger Pack DLC. Since the launch of TF2 on PC, Valve has tripled the content through free updates, but has not been able to do so on Xbox due to the restrictions.

    This article is hideously misquoted, I suggest people read the entire interview.

  • Gecks #65 1 year ago

    I appreciate valve want to be the nice guys who don't charge for content, but what's stopping them putting it on xbl for a trivial amount of ms points?

    If they still want to be the nice guys they could always pony up for some dedicated servers for xbl tf2...

  • arcam #66 1 year ago

    Thread win for UncleLou.

  • BBIAJ #67 1 year ago

    74 comments and no-one's mentioned the Angus Burger yet?

    Mmmm, yummy!

  • Harmonica #68 1 year ago

    tldr; Valve were lazy fucks with TF2. This is news?

  • Nephirion #69 1 year ago

    Do you think Bungie will be complaining about Halo Reach sales ^^

  • Shotofen #70 1 year ago

    MY oh my. Valve certainly has changed their tune with regards to the PS3. They must smell money...it makes the world go round. Sony deserves a lot of credit for bringing their platform back from the brink to the point where is can no longer be ignored as a force in the industry. Cool.

  • MrsPacMan #71 1 year ago

    Birds Eye frozen 1/4lb burger, (grilled of course, don't eat it frozen) with Heinz chilli ketchup and a cheese slice all in a tesco cheapy cheese topped bap. Heaven when you're as fucked up as I am.

    Try it

  • Xensor #72 1 year ago

    @MrsPacMan

    So basically mystery meat topped with a slice of yellow, smothered in liquid flavour all in a value bap*. That sounds like the perfect thing to eat when you've staggered in after a 12 hour bender down the local :)

    *aka a roll

    /On topic... kinda

    Where's episode 3 Gabe??

  • aphexstwin #73 1 year ago

    tgi fridays 12oz burger ftw!!

    or post pub in teesside, a parmo....nomnomnomnomnom

    http://en.wikipedi a.org/wiki/Parmo

  • n3rdh8r #74 1 year ago

    stop flaming each other. I eat burgers everywhere! I even eat vegetarian burgers. There's pro's and cons to all sort of burgers!

  • tiny_Eggy #75 1 year ago

    Focus on PC games and steam. Leave the consoles completely.

  • makariel #76 1 year ago

    The best burger I ever ate was a cheeseburger in some shady take-away in sligo.

    Apart from that I like the McTasty and was really underwhelmed with the Hard Rock Cafe Burgers so far.

  • Death-Jester #77 1 year ago

    The McDonalds over my way have really gone downhill with all their food, but the BK is still nice.
    Problem is I get wicked nasty farts after eating burgers :)

  • JahB #78 1 year ago

    Best thread ever.

    Mainly because it confirms my suspicion that no self respecting person eats fish burgers. Mmmmmh beef.

  • ThePissartist #79 1 year ago

    Valve are more than a bit daft.

    I've got Steam; it's incomparable to Xbox Live. Silly buggers.

  • Collymilad #80 1 year ago

    See I don't understand this.

    What's the issue? Valve on L4D1/2 (and other devs on their games) have made similiar updates to the ones TF2 has had with no charge. Sounds to me like they just couldn't be arsed updating it to be honest.

    Also, anyone who think's he actually likes the PS3 now is incredibly naive. The only thing that has changed is that the PS3 now has a userbase that is comparable to the 360's and there's money to be made. That's it.
    Edited by 1 at 12/09/10 @ 14:53

  • Arwin #81 1 year ago

    The Microsoft patch policy is preventing things like being able to download a patch that allows users haven't bought DLC to play with people who did and still see the new costumes and such. Especially the combination of not being allowed to do frequent updates and having them size restricted is what makes this nearly impossible. And then Microsoft has been very unfriendly regarding free DLC updates in the first place.

  • kazuya69 #82 1 year ago

    On Topic: Does anyone remember KFC's Mighty Double? God damn that was one fine burger!!

  • StooMonster #83 1 year ago

    I used to have a BK Mushroom Double Swiss for breakfast on a Monday morning on the way to work.

    I once tried to order one in USA but it ended up with someone being arrested at gun point.

  • jambo74 #84 1 year ago

    I'm tired generating all that Special Sauce

  • ChuckNorris #85 1 year ago

    Headlline: Gabe Newell admits that molesting cutomers is a good thing
    Quote: "Well no, in general it taught us a lot about the value of constantly touching your customers." - Gabe Newell
    Conclusion: Gabe Newell is a fat bastard that molests little children and hates XBL
    EG reader comment: Sony probably paid him to touch those children.

    Average EG news article where hideous out of context quoting or general misrepresentation of content are a frequent thing. Making the whole comment thread a derailed mess.

    +1 UncleLou

    (Quote taken from actual interview)

  • Azazel #86 1 year ago

    TBH if you're not getting your burgers from Burger King you're doing it wrong full stop.

    This man knows.

  • MrsPacMan #87 1 year ago

    My favourite burger

    http://bl og-teens.gratos.info/videos_flv...

  • subedii #88 1 year ago

    Iain815: Not really, the sudden love for the PS3 is pretty freaking obvious. Sony allowed Valve to put Steamworks on the the PS3, something that nobody was expecting them to allow, and that I sincerely doubt Microsoft would ever allow. The fact of Source already having been ported to OpenGL is also something that cannot be overlooked. When Source was ported to OpenGL, it was pretty much a matter of time before Valve were doing first hand development for the PS3, as opposed to having to depend on a 3rd party that would botch the job (*Cough*EA*Cough*).


    I'll also add that retrend has the right of it with regards to the fact that Live has a ridiculous patching system that's hampered GFWL titles as well. Dawn of War 2's online game suffered badly for having to go through GFWL's month-long certification process. Instead of being able to push out regular and frequent incremental patches, Relic instead had to ultimately go with releasing bulk mega-patches that made sweeping changes to the game at any one time. The problem with this is that it usually breaks almost as much as it fixes.

    For comparison, smaller company Gas Powered Games was able to push out more patches in the space of a month for SupCom 2 (Steamworks game, and so didn't need to go through a paid month long certification process for every update), than Relic typically managed to get out in six. Most were minor patches, but there were a few major additions as well.


    EDIT:

    --------------------------

    Also, for all those raging, the full quote offers a much better context:

    Erik Johnson: Favourite conversation of ours! PS3, so far. The way we’ve dealt with those customers so far, and the product that they have, and the lack of updates on the 360 for TF2 is also a total failure. Those are the ones that sting the worst because…

    Doug Lombardi: There’s actual ramifications.

    Erik Johnson: Because it got all the way through to customers. It’s like a bug. If you fix a bug before it ever ships, it’s pretty cheap. If you ship it and then fix it, it’s really expensive. Those ones are really bad.

    Gabe Newell: That’s why we’re really happy with the current situation with the PS3… We’re solving it now in a way that is going to work for our customers, rather than assuming something is going to emerge later that will allow us to fix this.


    -------------------------


    So yeah, it's pretty apparent they view their efforts to date on the consoles as a failure, and something they're intending to improve on.
    Edited by 1 at 14/09/10 @ 21:50