MS took "shortcuts" with Kinect

By Wesley Yin-Poole Published 24 August, 2010

Says creator of rival controller-free tech.

The creator of little-known motion detection technology iisu reckons Microsoft took "shortcuts" to get Xbox 360 add-on Kinect to market this November.

Softkinetic CEO and founder Michel Tombroff is impressed by Microsoft's marketing of the sensor, but unimpressed by the technology behind it.

"We started working on this [iisu] in 2003," he told Eurogamer.

"It started as a research project in Belgium. I don't know how they [Microsoft] did it on their side, but we've just put a lot of effort and many years of research into solving those problems before going to the market.

"They decided to go to market very quickly so they had to take some shortcuts.

"I will not comment on their behalf, but it took us a long time, so we don't see how anyone else… And it's not because you throw thousands of people at a problem that you solve it easily. Those are very complex problems."

Tombroff, who has partnered with EA Sports for the Tiger Woods series of games and is making his own videogames internally, including a rhythm music game called Silhouette, was referencing problems associated with lag, player detection and occlusion that have dogged Kinect in the run up to its release.

iisu, which claims to be "the most advanced 3D gesture recognition software platform", has solved these problems, Tombroff said.

"I'm very impressed they've [Microsoft] achieved this so quickly and they've been able to launch this initiative," he added.

"For us it's a blessing because now with Microsoft on the market, the market starts. Everybody wants 3D gesture recognition.

"I'm not impressed with the technical result. But I'm impressed by the marketing efforts."

iisu, which Tombroff hopes consumers will be able to buy from shops at the end of the year, is designed to work with non-gaming devices such as tellys and set top boxes, as well as traditional games.

It includes a Kinect-esque webcam and its own "software recognition layer" that supports every platform and 3D camera.

iisu is currently available for developers and console manufacturers who are preparing to launch products that use motion sensing.

"The way we've developed our own middleware solution, we paid a lot of attention to a very reduced lag. We have a lower lag on the software side.

"The camera we've developed uses a completely different technology than Kinect, and for that reason is more efficient with respect to lag, or latency.

"As part of the software solution we've patented, we have The Scene Segmentation, which allows us to recognise users irrespective of their positions, as long as they're in the field of view. It doesn't matter if you're sitting down or standing up.

"When people pass in front of each other or you put your hand in front of your face, the camera loses track of part of your body. We've solved that problem. We can always track your gestures even though you create occlusions.

"We paid a lot of attention to prevent other people from disturbing you. Of course if the person jumps on you and hugs you then that could distract the game. But if the person just sits next to you or stands next to you and watches you, you don't want that person to interfere with the game. We've solved that problem as well."

Tombroff said he would welcome Sony and Microsoft's advances if they wanted to use iisu with the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360.

But he refused to say whether he's had talks with Sony about controller-free gaming on the PS3, citing non-disclosure agreements, or with Microsoft about using iisu to improve Kinect.

"We bring a very attractive time to market advantage because we can easily adapt our software and our camera and our content to any of those platforms. That's important.

"If you look back at Sony and look at the evolution, they tried the PlayStation, then the PlayStation Eye, now the motion controllers. It's easy for someone like you who follows the market closely to see where they're going."

Will we see iisu's motion-free tech incorporated into the PS3, or perhaps even the PS4?

"Maybe. As long as I say maybe I don't commit to anything. But yes, maybe."

Have you talked to Sony about this?

"I'm under NDA. I cannot tell you. By saying that, the answer is yes, but we cannot talk about it.

"I'm afraid I cannot comment."

What about Kinect?

"We are developing content for our technology for different cameras and potentially for the Xbox. We have our own tools, our own middleware, we can do a lot of things Kinect cannot do, even on that platform.

"For that reason, I don't mean to criticise Kinect as something that is not good. I'm just saying things can go much better still. It's just the beginning."

Have you talked to Microsoft?

"I cannot say."

PlayStation Move is set for a 15th September release in the UK. Kinect will be released on 10th November.

Picture of Wesley.

About Wesley Yin-Poole

Wesley is Eurogamer's news editor. He likes news, interviews, and more news. He also likes Street Fighter more than anyone can get him to shut up about it.

Read more articles from Wesley by visiting the Wesley Yin-Poole archive page.

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Comments (72) Latest comment 2 years ago

Comments for this article are now closed, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • mcmonkeyplc #1 2 years ago

    Rival says other product that is out on market sooner is shit SHOCKER!

  • cianchristopher #2 2 years ago

    I reckon they took the long way round! They could have released this crap back in 1999, and it would've had as much functionality then as it does now.

  • Skandalle #3 2 years ago

    Alot of Kinect hate today!

  • Dolly #4 2 years ago

    "Everybody wants 3D gesture recognition".

    Erm, not everyone chief.

  • sfp_noodle #5 2 years ago

    @Skandalle

    Well, you can't deny that the hate isn't justified. The thing has been hyped to high hell (I mean c'mon, they even got Steven Spielberg to big it up) and it has failed in almost everything it initially promised. If their tech really is so different to the competition, why did they rush it to compete with the Playstation Move? If something is truely different, and works, the public will wait for it. If Kinect was delayed for another 6 months but ended up doing everything they promised in the first place, I sure as hell wouldn't mind waiting. In its current state though, most gamers couldn't give a shit about it.
    Edited by sfp_noodle at 24/08/10 @ 17:08

  • miiiguel #6 2 years ago

    Maybe. As long as I say maybe I don't commit to anything. But yes, maybe."

    I'm under NDA. I cannot tell you."

    Priceless.

  • Negotiator #7 2 years ago

    This guy is a joke, first he says that MS have rushed Kinect to market this november, yet his so called better device is coming out at the end of the year. This guy knows they cannot compete with MS and Kinect and he is shitting his pants, everything he said his device can do Kinect can do as well, like his so called device Kinect is improved with software. Who is the biggest and best software company in the world? thats right its Microsoft, what a moron.

  • riceNpea #8 2 years ago

    everyone takes shortcuts. you'd be mad not to.

  • Scopeh #9 2 years ago

    How long before MS and 'Issu'; or whatever its called, decide to drop the SUE bomb on each other?

    'Yo you be stealings our ideazzz'!!

  • Bremenacht #10 2 years ago

    Good lord. Sony will be telling us their product is better than Microsoft's next.

  • Psychotext #11 2 years ago

    Buy us please.

  • darleysam #12 2 years ago

    Wait for Nintendo to implement it, and suddenly camera-based motion control becomes the most innovative idea, accorting to the commenting majority.

  • kangarootoo #13 2 years ago

    Hmmmm, he could be right, he could be wrong.

    1. MS might simply have better engineers.

    2. MS might realise that they don't need the level of fidelity he is talking about to make fun games.

    3. Kinect might not be up to the task.

    All of these are possibilities, and we can't know which is the case just from this little interview snippet. This dude is clearly on the sell, which is fine, but it does make him an unreliable witness.

    I can't past the inherrent assumption that if someone did something faster than his team, they must have cut corners. He says that throwing resources at a complex problem doesn't guarantee you will solve it... but it kind of helps. Its not just one guy fixing problems in a bubble, it also matters what resources are available to that guy, what R&D he can call on that is not directly focussed on the same product but may have solved some common problems.

    I'm not saying he is wrong, or that Kinect is better than his tech. Neither am I saying that Kinect is not up to scratch - again bearing in mind that being the best isn't always necessary to have a functional, so long as you are good enough. I'm just saying that there are more factors at play than this dude seems to be considering.

    P.s. and he needs to learn to say "no comment".

  • kangarootoo #14 2 years ago

    @Argentlupine

    Its not worth getting into it with Negotiator. If he isn't on the payroll, he should be.

  • RexRunti #15 2 years ago

    Hmm iisu's company Softkinetic has been operating since 2007. I'm pretty sure there was working demo of some 3d gesture recognition software using 2 xbox live vision cameras ages ago and god knows when the company MS bought actually started their research.

    Interstingly iisu appears to be compatible with Kinect anyway so slagging it off when it is the only market for your middleware seems a little stupid.

  • Haloboy #16 2 years ago

    Kin-el.
    Edited by Haloboy at 24/08/10 @ 17:51

  • paulf #17 2 years ago

    @kangarootoo

    you missed out microsoft might have shed loads more money to throw at it

  • Shinetop #18 2 years ago

    Company says competitor's product is not as good as their own. Incredible news!

  • Spekingur #19 2 years ago

    MS got their tech from a military tech developer. I'm pretty sure that because of this they have built Kinect in such a way that you can stab someone in the eye through Kinect from the comforts of your own living room.

  • BlinxHDD #20 2 years ago

    "I'm not impressed with the technical result."

    I'm not impressed with the technical, OR gaming result.

  • dsmx #21 2 years ago

    As Kinect stands I can see it only as eyetoy with heat vision, I've yet to see anything played with it that could be considered a proper game that current owners of the xbox 360 would want to play.

    Therefore it's aimed squarely at the wii market, the move has been shown on games that current owners of the ps3 own so for my money move is aimed at gamers and kinect at the casual crowd.
    Edited by dsmx at 24/08/10 @ 18:04

  • sneetch #22 2 years ago

    @Negotiator
    Who is the biggest and best software company in the world?

    IBM is biggest. As for best, it depends on your criteria but I've used too many Microsoft products to say Microsoft. I'd be more inclined to say IBM or Google.

    thats right its Microsoft, what a moron.

    No. As I already said it's IBM. ;)

  • ignatiusjreilly #23 2 years ago

    There's one thing he's right about, and that is that MS' marketing of Kinect has been pretty spectacular. Expensive I'm sure, but from Milo to faun-people, they've done a pretty amazing job that has got a lot of press.

  • Spekingur #24 2 years ago

    @sneetch: IBM however is not a company that many associate with their computers. Microsoft is most widespread and most known around the world. Along with Apple, of course.

  • MyPointIs #25 2 years ago

    "I'm impressed by the marketing efforts"

    That's a nice way of putting someone down :)

  • BlinxHDD #26 2 years ago

    Apparently Kinect was shown at Gamescom inside closed-off bubbles to keep distractions to a minimum. But surely a casual gaming experience potentially means lots of people gathered around a sofa? Maybe even *shock horror* brushing arms with one another.

  • sneetch #27 2 years ago

    @Spekingur
    @sneetch: IBM however is not a company that many associate with their computers. Microsoft is most widespread and most known around the world. Along with Apple, of course.

    Perhaps not, however it wasn't a question of who's the most widely known it was "the biggest and best software company in the world".

    Being well known doesn't make your engineers better.

  • TAPNGO #28 2 years ago

    this guy is full of shit, he basically said the kinect is limited but we can make it work better???????.


    m$ won't say it but the kinect is not ready yet, if you notice almost all the games are aimed at little kids , give a kid a controller and watch how much they start leaning all over the place. I'm going to preorder one just for Dance Central and for some type of future fitness trainer that intrest me, i dont want it for my typical hardcore games. during the upcoming holiday seasons it will be very diffcult to buy one, hell i may preoder 2 and sell one on ebay.
    Edited by TAPNGO at 24/08/10 @ 18:24

  • miiiguel #29 2 years ago

    @sneetch : no, it's not, it's actually Microsoft, and then Oracle. If we're talking about software of course. IBM (datacenter) or Dell (home) if we're talking about computers.

  • TAPNGO #30 2 years ago

    biggest software companies??, its m$ its not even close.

    http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/f...
    Edited by TAPNGO at 24/08/10 @ 18:33

  • drumbaby #31 2 years ago

    Msoft in 'rushing out a piece of shit' shocker!

  • makeamazing #32 2 years ago

    Software company with many fingers in many pies. They may have lots of programmers but they arnt all working on Kinect. :) on Another note, this guy does sound like hes a bit upset that a rival product is coming to market with mucho Pr and going to render his product pointless (though i cant say i am impressed with Kinect).... so hes probably worried that all the work he has done since 2003 is going to go down the drain and hope that Sony buy him out.

  • sneetch #33 2 years ago

    @Negotiator @miiiguel @TAPNGO @Spekingur

    Holy crap! You ain't kidding!

    http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/f...

    Apologies Negotiator. (Amazed to see EA in the top 5).

    Edit: gaaah! URLs!
    Edited by sneetch at 24/08/10 @ 18:42

  • ziggy_played_guitar #34 2 years ago

    They may have lots of programmers but they arnt all working on Kinect.

    I hope not. They have "my" money and it's not to spend it on toys. We work here. Sometimes.

  • miiiguel #35 2 years ago

    @sneetch : yeah, it's going to take decades to bring MS down from #1, if ever. Sun tried, they did so badly Oracle bought them. Oracle doesn't want to go that route anymore, so they're pretty safe. Apple's not getting into the office/datacenter ever. So... it's going to stay that way.

  • alimokrane #36 2 years ago

    Wow at all the Kinect hate on the web laterly.... I dont fancy any of this motion controller business myself but some people have got to get some perspective here. It seems everyone wants kinect to do whatever the hell they want it to do... It cant detect me seated .... it doesnt recognize my fingers.... it doesnt this and that... Enough already!

  • makeamazing #37 2 years ago

    @alimokrane, yep i agree some people do take it too seriously, but in some cases Ms only have themselves to blame, and i say their E3 2009 presentation was an absolute joke. That to me is where they overdid it and where alot of the hate is coming from. Would there be as much hate if they delivered what they said in that presentation, I dont think so, i think many more people here would want to buy it.

  • Peter_LIAR_Molyneux #38 2 years ago

    @alimokrane

    Most of the "hate" as you put it is because of the deceptive and dishonest portrayal of Kinect's abilities in pre-rendered footage that was passed off as realtime gameplay. If Microsoft is putting out videos of people sitting down playing quiz show style games with their hands, making patent applications for sign language etc. then yeah, folks are being sold a faulty bill of sale and the have every right to call out Microsoft on it. I'm hoping for the best with Kinect but everything I've seen so far is making me expect the absolute worst.

  • miiiguel #39 2 years ago

    peter_liar_molyneux ?! Realy?!

    What's that about ? ... something "hardcore" ?

  • xentar #40 2 years ago

    if I read this correctly, they are trying to say that we will possibly get kinect features in PS2 PS Eye with move. And that sounds nice. I would hate to have to buy four move controllers just to have precise movement of my legs in fighting games :)

  • mrpsb #41 2 years ago

    Have you talked to Sony about this?

    "I'm under NDA. I cannot tell you. By saying that, the answer is yes, but we cannot talk about it."


    NDA fail.

  • Negotiator #42 2 years ago

    My point is this guy blowing smoke out of his ass, he claims they have better tech, but where is the evidence? Kinect is the only viable product in this area that consumers are interested in, I mean who had even heard of this other device before reading about it today.

  • Zero Beat #43 2 years ago

    It's not just living up to E3 '09 expectations. Gamers expect a reliably precise and responsive controller for input and it doesn't look like Kinect's ever going to offer that. Even if Microsoft hadn't quartered the resolution of the depth sensor, it'd still be getting a very fuzzy impression of the player's outline and depth. There'd still be no solid impression of limb rotation. No use of the player's individual fingers and no physical (rumble) feedback.

    As limited as the Wiimote is without Motion+, I still think it's a better gaming controller than Kinect. It's a reliable pointing device, has buttons, rumble and accelerometer motion sensing.

    Move's taking the Wiimote with Motion+ further by using a more precise (at higher speeds) accelerometer and gyroscope and adds a magnetometer into the mix to help keep things calibrated. They're adding and improving the EyeToy's object tracking by tracking the Move's sphere with the PlayStation Eye, reliably because it's lit like a reflective Mocap marker and it's a consistent shape and size. The analogue T trigger on the underside of Move gives a sensation a bit like closing your hand so it's intuitively used for grabbing actions in games like tumble.

    Nintendo and Sony remember what's useful for games but Microsoft don't seem to have a clue any more.

  • Collymilad #44 2 years ago

    Rival says rivals product isn't up to standard.

  • lockload #45 2 years ago

    Surprise, surprise the creator of something that has been beaten to market bitches and bitches

    From my insider info iisu sacrifices precision over speed and doesn't work in low lighting conditions

  • dsmx #46 2 years ago

    I thought we a already new that sony move does limb and body tracking they showed it in that vid a month or so back with that game that you grabbed things as a robot and it showed your skeleton movement on the screen because it wasn't finished.

  • monkfishjoe #47 2 years ago

    "We started working on this [iisu] in 2003...I will not comment on their behalf, but it took us a long time, so we don't see how anyone else[could do this]"

    I'd imagine buying Primesense solved that one...

  • BlinxHDD #48 2 years ago

    "I would hate to have to buy four move controllers just to have precise movement of my legs in fighting games :)"

    I don't think you really WANT control of legs in fighting games.. or nearly all games really.
    Kinect certainly doesn't give you precise leg movement. If it did, the running and hurdles in Kinect Sports would be properly checking your legs, not doing a track and field button mash equivalent with overall body flailing.

  • Badassbab #49 2 years ago

    Urgh! Sony adds 'iisu' at E3 2012 to the PS3's ever growing gaming 'essentials' accessories list while MS adds 'wave your arms about like a prat but this time with a x-wand in your hand' device at E3 2013.

    Just release a new console please.

  • Feanor #50 2 years ago

    "iisu" makes "Kinect" sound like the best product name in history.

  • Spekingur #51 2 years ago

    @sneetch: I wasn't actually commenting on the biggest or the best. It really didn't matter to me ;)
    I just wanted to comment on brand names. Most people will know about Microsoft, Windows or some part of the Office package. Quite a lot fewer will know what IBM is and what they have done and are doing for the computer technology industry.

    MS undoubtedly make quite a few dollars each second but that doesn't mean they are the best (or the worst for that matter). They are after all a business, or a multinational corporation rather. That means that they are very likely operating in the grey area of business and ethics - that is just the nature of most if not all multinational corporations, even if they claim otherwise :p

    @dsmx: Skeleton was maybe just a placeholder for graphics?

  • Dave #52 2 years ago

    From my 15 mins watching peeps playing with Kinect at Gamescon, it couldn't really grab my interest. The lag was pretty obvious in the demo where you need to hit blocks with your hands and feet. The petting mini-game thingie had a high cuteness factor though, especially since a little girl was petting the baby tiger. But then the steering a car without an actual steering wheel in your hands seemed pretty akward. But who knows, maybe they just have the wrong games to fully take advantage of the possibilities. I don't think we can really say anything before the thing's in stores.

  • Bluetooth #53 2 years ago

    No, I will not buy that used car off you Tombroff!

  • Nephirion #54 2 years ago

    Why has no-one commented on how the real big titles have slipped strangely into next year, maybe to clear the way for the huge kinetic push?

  • DjFlex52 #55 2 years ago

    Most of the "hate" as you put it is because of the deceptive and dishonest portrayal of Kinect's abilities in pre-rendered footage that was passed off as realtime gameplay. If Microsoft is putting out videos of people sitting down playing quiz show style games with their hands, making patent applications for sign language etc. then yeah, folks are being sold a faulty bill of sale and the have every right to call out Microsoft on it. I'm hoping for the best with Kinect but everything I've seen so far is making me expect the absolute worst.

    @Peter_LIAR_Molyneux

    I hope, in the past, that you also have called out Sony & Nintendo for their past deceptions and dishonest portrayals of their products.

    In 2006, Sony constantly boasted their superiority over the 360("next gen doesn't start till we say so";) but subsequently didn't deliver a game (KZ2) that looked better than a 360 game until 2009.

    In 2008, Nintendo claimed they didn't forget the hardcore gamer and then they proceeded to put out only 5 "hardcore" games for the next 28 months.

    These companies are all alike but don't get criticized in the same way...personal bias is the reason why ;-)

  • JensonJet #56 2 years ago

    I think Kinect is priced high enough that the predicted low volume of sales will cover the development costs quickly. But it's a hopeless product that looks doomed to failure. The technology right now isn't good enough for what developers need to incorporate this tech into games in any meaningful or interesting way. The Milo demo/con showed a potential for this type of technology in the future, but Kinect, and probably current consoles aren't capable enough of allowing the games industry to create fully interactive AI games. I imagine the next consoles and the second generation of Kinect will be closer to what we all imagined when we were first shown this product.

  • pinochet_cz #57 2 years ago

    first post +1

  • Geordiemp #58 2 years ago

    @DJFlex

    Good post, although for me it was UC1 where the SPU argumenet started to show PS3 in good light - I think it took a little while to 'sink' in, so by time KZ2 came along the benefit of parallel programming was being accepted.

    Big N, it depends on your view, is 5 games allot or a little, depends on the gamer....

    Agree with the MS Kinect marketing, it was so fabricated, it was worse than boasts or claims, it was just made up....

  • DjFlex52 #59 2 years ago

    Big N, it depends on your view, is 5 games allot or a little, depends on the gamer....

    @Geordiemp

    Thanks...5 quality games in 12 months is pretty good but 5 quality games in over 2 years is cutting it pretty thin for an avid gamer ;)

  • Kremlik Verified Co-Founder, Crash To Desktop #60 2 years ago

    I think DJFlex summed up my thoughts on Kinect quite well, basically we have been shown a shell of the product first hyped back in '09, perhaps it can do exactally what it said on the tin - but certinally not the first version of the product, maybe 3rd or 4th 'upgrade', thus I kinda agree with the article in some way MS are too much in a hurry to push the product out and 'beat' Sony/Nintendo for christmas sales then actally polish it up and get to the '09 status'.

    Coupled with the fact Nintendo have the 'World of Warcraft' effect on the casual gamer with motion control market, MS' marketing is all wrong, they are asking people to part with more money for hardware they already have (or will buy cheaper) with practically the same software, unless they already own a 360 and don't own a Wii or PS3 I don't see parents/families rushing out and paying another £300 minimum for a '2nd Wii' - Kinect will not sell new consoles on it's own to the 'Wii market', which is what MS are hoping for.

    At least Sony have bled the Move into their current playerbase by offering current titles an 'upgrade' for the controls and even that is a little hit and miss, neither product will 'steal' Nintendo's playerbase away from them, but at least Sony havn't tried to 'Wii 1.5' and just repackage the Wii's software and claim 'new' and give little else, like I said above if really that is all MS are going to push the hardware for it's very un-'must buy', which coupled with the 'WoW' effect again I kinda see after christmas at least a lot of trade ins appearing on both products unless either can give that target market more then 'it looks prittier' as the main question is what can motion control for the Move and Kinect do that Nintendo already havn't?
    Edited by Kremlik at 25/08/10 @ 08:07

  • DjFlex52 #61 2 years ago

    ^ ^ ^
    +1

    Correct, Kremlik.

  • NotSoSlim #62 2 years ago

    Think you will see more Kinect trade INS mainly due to possible lack of software. Where Sony may at first look like making the Move a Wii 1.5 they have as stated cleverly shown core games working with the device.

    You will get loads of casual crap that won't sell millions of consoles but will appeal to certain people but alot of core gamers may not pick Move up this year but then you have KZ3, Socom and more coming early next year which will appeal to people who may like the idea of the Wii but want more from consoles. Plus they will still have Singstar and Buzz that appeals to families.

    For the first time in ages Sony have marketed a product properly and the tv ads have not started yet.

  • FireMonkey #63 2 years ago

    Hmm.. This sounds like someone is a bit bitter that MS got there before them.

    "As part of the software solution we've patented, we have The Scene Segmentation, which allows us to recognise users irrespective of their positions, as long as they're in the field of view. It doesn't matter if you're sitting down or standing up."

    The Milo demo shown at TED was used by someone slouched on a sofa, so Kinect can do that too.

    "When people pass in front of each other or you put your hand in front of your face, the camera loses track of part of your body. We've solved that problem. We can always track your gestures even though you create occlusions."

    How can it really track you if you create occlusions? Can it really see though walls? All it can really do is best guesses.

  • Trigg3rHippie #64 2 years ago

    A nice piece of marketing from Mr. Tombroff. Everyone wants a piece of this cake... Especially now when it smells like a pile of cash.

  • kestral #65 2 years ago

    It's not really good marketing when you 'introduce' a product that's a year away (in 2009) in order to compete with what the rivals are showing, then not being able to deliver that product.

    This is typical Microsoft.

  • Chazmeister #66 2 years ago

    What's the bet that this is the first and last time we ever hear of "iisu"?

  • SlackMaster #67 2 years ago

    Hmm, I'd say that if lag is noticable on Kinect it may put a lot of gamers off the product. Different platform but the lag on the Wii zapper compared to the cross hair on screen makes a lot of those types of games unplayable for me.

  • KayJay #68 2 years ago

    "Sun tried, they did so badly Oracle bought them."

    I'm at the arse end of this... :-(
    Not fun...

    /works for Sun
    /walks into the impending redundancy thread (oh sorry, "compromise agreement" thread)
    Fubar.

  • miiiguel #69 2 years ago

    Hey..., we're the 3rd biggest Sun customer in Europe, so, we tried. Then again, most Sun staff members (even field techs) drive (drove ?) BMW's and Lexus, I suppose it was fun while it lasted.

  • AOFanboi #70 2 years ago

    I think it fitting that a company with expensive software (Oracle) bought a company with expensive hardware (Sun). Now if they would buy a company with expensive cponsultants (Accenture) it will be an irresistible trifecta.

  • Quak #71 2 years ago

    This sounds like sour grapes because he was late to the party. He's been working on something since 2003, MS comes in years later and beats him to market, so he goes off on one saying they've taken short-cuts.

    Suck it up, amigo. You were too slow.

  • Quak #72 2 years ago

    > But he refused to say whether he's had talks with Sony about controller-free gaming on the PS3, citing non-disclosure agreements

    Well, there wouldn't be any NDAs if there hadn't been a discussion, so the answer's yes.