10 Years of CCP Comments by Patrick Garratt

Of course when one needs these links they're impossible to find again, but I know for a fact that Kjartan Pierre Emil, EVE's Creative Director and Founder has mentioned EVE being used in scenarios and workshops in well know business schools around the world.

Here is, however, a blog about business in EVE on Terra Nova:

http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/20...

And here they are at it in EVE, a typical case study, long winded, but interesting:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard....

And a stickies thread on investing in EVE:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard....

These are not all laymen pretending to be businessmen.

The only one I recall is a harvard student saying he was going to use eves economy as a basis for his thesis, havent seen anything else mentioned and a quick search didnt turn anything up.

ps, you'd be surprised how many laymen(and children) do well in eves market, it's never been difficult to make money in EvE, especially compared to other MMO's

No, not surprised at all. But then again, doing well, and making alot of ingame money is relative, isn't it? And there are alot of 14 year old thirtysomethings, as well as many bright kids.

I was trying to make the point that EVE's trade and business opportunities are vast, and allow for all sorts of wheeling and dealing, at a level that far surpasses other MMOGs. EVE's market interface has graphs and barcharts for all manner of statistics, and many of the tradeskills mirror RL terms and practices. One can play at being, or play out scenarios, as a businessman in EVE.

And as for it being easy to make money in EVE.. Well. Fairly. I've never had a problem getting by. But not making A LOT of money. Compared to any other MMOG making A LOT of money is rather tough. Or at least requires time.

Moneymaking in WoW, LotRO, CoH, EQII, AO, SWG and all the numerous others I've played were much more simplistic, even FFXI I would rate easier, although Chinese gil sellers swamped that game and ruined it for me at one point. And the most important point is, none of these games have an economy or bartering system that even comes CLOSE to equalling EVE's.

I can make 600-800mil a week for 4-5 hours work. Not lots, but doesnt take much time either. Made my first billion within a month or two of retail by employing a mining corp to get lows, mining zyd/mega myself and producing from an unlimited arma bpc. Kept making money from that but the margins got lower and lower. Not to mention the 20+billion I've made just from the t2 lottery(that took a phd in economics!).

As for the economy being complex because it has barcharts and statistics... well ;)

Eves economy may have more layers than most(but not all) mmo's, but it doesnt make it that much more complex or special.

@SleepyMagpie: Actually, I do think the only way to compete with the EAs of this world is to play their game, yes, although to a limited extent.
The issue with niche games is that the market tapped tends to be so small as to just about cover the expenses with some marginal profit, at best. As much as I hate it, companies engaging in those endeavours are extremely susceptible to changes in the market while a juggernaut à la EA isn't.
Many a minor has succumbed to technological innovations or general userbase fluctuations and have either been absorbed or outmarketed in the end. A blockbuster title grants financial leeway, usually enough to remain both economically viable and continue investing in what would be the core projects, or at least the interesting ones.

As an example: WoW may be the pinnacle of market-oriented games according to many a player (including myself, for the record), it will however allow Blizzard to continue developing independently and to their own accord. Even EA cannot hope to outright acquire them any longer.
Whether Blizzard will produce only mainstream titles from now on is a different matter.
I'm sure nitpickers will retort based on the example alone rather than the issue proper but you get the jist of it ;)

I certainly am not advocating smaller developers moving solely towards games aimed at as large an audience as possible. I'm merely saying that the opposite - producing solely niche games - is a majestic gamble and, sadly, fails more often than it pays off.
And while elitists will claim otherwise I daresay popular doesn't necessarily equate 'dumbed down' or outright bad. Niche, however, does unfortunately equate 'limited sales' and thus 'limited return-on-investment' in the contemporary gaming world.

"And EVE isn't a game. It's a revolution."

Ahhrgh, dude, you're killing me.

"I can make 600-800mil a week for 4-5 hours work. Not lots, but doesnt take much time either. Made my first billion within a month or two of retail by employing a mining corp to get lows, mining zyd/mega myself and producing from an unlimited arma bpc. Kept making money from that but the margins got lower and lower. Not to mention the 20+billion I've made just from the t2 lottery(that took a phd in economics!)."

Good for you sir. That is a bit. But still not A LOT. Not like the big fish pull in.

But you speak of establishing your wealth a month or two after retail (I take this to mean release?). Yes. At that time there were many fat nodes to grab easily, and without risk, in mining and elsewhere. I came into the game about 6 months after
and the game was still wide open. But things have changed mightily since those days. Let me see you mine zyd and mega as a one man operation today without some affiliation to the corps that stake claims in 0.0 security.

The t2 lottery you mention is also just mad luck, not many get that. And you need a research oriented character first to get to the lotteries, and that takes some time/effort. Not really a valid argument for EVE's economy doling out the dosh liberally.

And again, currency is always relative. The figures you boast are relatively large, yes, but get into a serious war, involving losing battleships (which you will) or even capital ships on a regular basis, and that ISK is a mere pittance.

And you will get into wars, 'cause the treasures are guarded, and even traders get mobbed out of profitable spacelanes these days.

So I still hold that amassing wealth in EVE is tougher than many games, Ave being apt at it notwithstanding. I also wonder how EVE's economy model can be seen as simple as most other MMOGs. No, of course a barchart doesn't make for a complex ecomomy, but all the numerous methods of selling, buying, and trading, and the skills you learn to influence this, does.

I mean, I played WoW since many of my mates did, and had some fun I will reluctantly admit. 2 characters to 60, and 10 minutes every day with auctioneer running and some half-awake speculation at the AH, and I ended up with well over a constant 2K gold from nothing (on a PvP server). That was my regular balance, I bought stuff constantly. No, it's not much, but I could do it with NO effort while waiting for people to get ready, and I could buy everything I needed and wanted, whenever. THAT is an easy economy. EVE's isn't.

@JoeBlade: I hear your argument, and while it pops up frequently, and is a valid one, I still think industry modes of operation can be tweaked to allow for more niche titles. Middleware, Steam, and other cost reducing implementations will hopefully allow for cheaper productions. Something has to anyway, or the whole industry is heading towards a crash.

And besides. One does not fight the devil by his own methods. A totally removed and admittedly contrived analogy would be the americans now finding themselves trampling all over their own values regarding freedom of speech, belief, etc., in the hunt for terrorists (UK too, mayhaps?), and Israel has almost become as fascist as the nazis in trying to secure their own state.

Sweeping statements in the nature of the article that started this thread. Yay!

(^_^)

EVE is a revolutionary product. Yes, is the first and only online interactive massively multi user screen saver.

"but I could do it with NO effort while waiting for people to get ready, and I could buy everything I needed and wanted, whenever. THAT is an easy economy. EVE's isn't."

Thats exactly what I do in eve, take 10minutes to set buy orders and spend the other few hours a week collecting and selling - so according to your definition, eve's is an easy economy.

PS, a BS with t2 fittings will cost under 200mil and you'll get 60+mil back from insurance, if you're losing 4 t2 fitted fleet BS a week every week you're doing something very very wrong.

I can afford to lose a t2 fitted dread every 3 weeks(or lose around 15 before I run out of ISK) so again, I'm not sure how much of what you are saying is hype/fanboyism and how much is stuff you actually know.

If I spent 30+hours a week in eve I would be clearing a hell of a lot more, but I already have more isk that I know what to do with and I get my kicks from WoW while training skills and spending a few hours a week in eve.

"I can afford to lose a t2 fitted dread every 3 weeks(or lose around 15 before I run out of ISK) so again, I'm not sure how much of what you are saying is hype/fanboyism and how much is stuff you actually know."

This statement illustrates perfectly the feeling I get that you are neglecting to mention or factor in that you are either: Connected, came in at a good time, or wildly boasting and need to be told that you are very clever.

Or lastly, maybe you're just clever along with one or more of the above.

I still claim that EVE's economy is not easy by any means, for the starting player. If you are able to see through all the smoke that the various interfaces and tradeskills throw up, and see the deals underneath, then it may be easy. But for most folks it isn't. And the people playing EVE I have spoken with have all reported EVE as at least SEEMING complex when they first started, and that it's learning curve was steep.

These people are not dunces.

And everything SEEMS easy once you've mastered it.

And even though I know how to make millions in EVE now, 3 years on, I base my rating of EVE's economy on my view then and now, and what I've had related from other players and friends.

How can claiming EVE's economy to be somewhat complex be seen as hype/fanboyism btw? For some that can even be considered a minus..

Anyway, I'm pretty much done flogging this horse, Anyone following this thread (haha) can make up their own mind between the comments that have been made.

Bottom line is that I think EVE is a very good MMOG, that looks set to be getting better, and I am impressed by and respect CCP for being able to produce a game like this as a small independent, and persevere and flourish. I also see it as more mature and with more consequences than most MMOGs.

So long, and thank you for the arguments. \O

ok you two burbling about eve's economy take it in game and have arace in your spacships or somehting

The ones saying this article is pretentious kiss my swingers, you are wasting my life making me read your comemnts

and as for the girl who reckons that Hitlers ascention had nothing to do with his oratory skills go back to creationism camp or where ever you are getting your mis guided education and learn some more shite.

ahem

Good Article very interesting and I salute any game makers who aren't Challenging everything or in the gaming me to death. The whole russians v scandos v yankers makes for interesting contemplation.

Ken

Pretentious trappings, but good article nonetheless. I don't really see what kind of framework the whole Che Guevara angle gave the press conference in Reykjavik, but ... at least it's unconventional. And that's good. First article on Eurogamer that I've bothered to closely read in a long time.

I wish more game companies spoke of ideology and the politics of user experiences, rather than OMG ROCKETLAUNCHER and LOOKIT OUR TITS WE LIEK FEMALE PLAYERS TO FEEL COMFORTABLE POLEDANCING IN FANTASYLAND!!!!1

I suppose my main problem with Eve is that it failed to grab me. Sure, the exclusive idea, either attract or repel players and those that stay, stay because they love it, that's fine and eminently more sensible for what they're aiming for than a WoW-type inclusiveness. However the way it looks like it plays from shots, videos etc, and the way it actually plays in practice are so completely disparate, and I expected something that I could actually control and engage with, not the hugely abstracted experience that it is in practice. I wonder if changing the interface to allow more direct control a la elite/privateer/X etc, or making it an option, would attract more players than it loses of the diehard fans of the original interface?

Also, the whole thing about politics and so on in-game (Russians vs. everyone else, corp. espionage etc) is great to read about, but look at the numbers. CCP chap says 16,000 people were involved...of 200,000. That's 184,000 players (92% ? my maths sucks) untouched by it (much like real world politics). My experience of gameplay during my fortnight's trial was extremely tedious and had nothing remotely political to it, nor even much impetus toward or reason for interaction with other players.

Mr. Journalist, you fell into the trap that CCP has set for you. Never believe what they tell you, or if you insist, try to see past the wrapping paper, which is always very nice coloured and pretty.

I have always wanted to play EVE but I didn't last past the trial thingie for 5 times now. Why? Because EVE is an elitist game who does not allow, under any circumstance, n00bs. In life, we get the chance of being young and we also get 2 high level guardians to protect us (well most of us at least). In EVE we don't and CCP is eigher very very smooth in PR, or (my personal oppinion) they are all to hardcore eve players to ever give a damn about the rest. Freedom? Yeah, old and powerful players and organizations (you didn't hear me say BoB, did you now?) are free to rule a world which could have otherwise been wonderful. If I am a n00b... well pity I haven't started EVE back then in 2002 or what was the year.

And playgrounds or no playgrounds, games ARE SUPPOSED to have fun, no? EVE is so complex that fun has nothing to do with it, and if you don't have time to spend there, you are... well, a n00b:). Do you see a circle pattern like I do?

IMHO, If CCP would really like to do something revolutionary, considering the amount of money and dedication they require from their players for a little bit of "fun" (most EVE players own more than 1 account), they'd drop the subscription fee and get their income like a real world does - like, ads or something, rewarding the players for their time or something because, what CCP says they wanna do is NOT a game, but A SOCIETY. And at the moment, they are the only ones who can afford to even fantasise about this.

So the conclusion is that this article is simply too "advertisment" for me. I am happy for CCP and I wish them many more years of success, but please be objective, mister Journalist, and at least don't be so strong in stating such extraordinary and revolutionary things about EVE, whithout presenting the other, not so pretty and revolutionary, part...

One more thing (later added): some may argue that I want my games simple. That is not so. But what bothers me most about EVE is that its complexity is build in such a way that it makes most of its players... antisocial and unfriendly to say the least *cough* and some just plain paranoid *cough*. What I would like is to give EVE a 6st chance and to actually be able to socialize, a little, or at least not the get the anti-n00b attitude when I ask my n00bish questions. I understand that many EVE players are totally anti trial players, who are indeed and righteously most filtered by the game itself, but meh, you might be loosing a big bunch of nice people you could play with...