10 Years of CCP Comments by Patrick Garratt

Except Cuba isn't in South America

When devs get to the point of making ships explorable then count me interested. I seem to recall a news article pointing out that girls didnt like 'being spaceships' hence the lack of interest in the genre...I'm no girl but I can sympathise with that point.

So devs...let us repair our warp drives but scooting down to enginneering and seeing whats what, let us put the ship on autopilot while we play a game of chess in the back room, let us have our own cabin. Unreal 2 got that feel right with their ship...it just wasnt moving in a mmorpg space highway.

This article is sailing a little close to pretentious Edge territory for me.

it is a typical communist country, even down to the corruption.
Shame I don't think i'd like to live (play) in one, certainly not one for accountants

Played it for a month, it's a hardcore geeks wet dream, too geeky for me I'm afraid.

The biggest problem with EVE is CCP. The game has developed a lot further than their own organisation. If you look at the lastest patch tha's going in to the game there are huge sweeping changes being implemented with relatively little testing. Some things work, some things dont, exploits and borderline exploits abound, lag and bugs plague the servers and there's very little explanation for any of it.

To me what EVE shows more than anything is that there's an opportunity for another company to do the same thing better, but space sims haven't been flavour of the month for a long long time.

Cubans risk their lives just for the chance to flee their country. This is probably not the experience to which most game developers aspire.

Also, your Communist poster boy was a thug and a murderer.

Is it me, or is it a bit odd to compare a fascist/communist guerrilla to an anarchist MMO made from an anarchist country?

Edit: Oh nm, I get it. It's a polar-opposites thing. Wild applause vs. quiet speaking and the like. Sorry, I'm stupid today :/

Not one mention of space zombies. Not in the entire piece!

Interesting sentiment, though, and it's encouraging to see a developer willing to be different.

Oh Hay I heard this article is about EvZzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZz

@murmillo:

Careful, I don't want to spark any debate or anything but in a way the allied forces in the second world war could be murderers as well...
In the sense that they murdered people...

Same for Guevara...

So it really comes down to agreeing with their motives or not...
The allied forces liberated europe, Guevara and others obviously liberated cuba...

To some people I mean...

I imagine the reason why a lot of people leave EVE is that they get griefed, find out that the devs know about the hole that allows the griefing but don't plan on doing anything about it, and decide that they'd rather not waste their time or money on the game any more.

EVE is indeed like a playground, except that the nanny is not only not paying attention but actually doesn't care whether the psycho kids stab the others or not.

"The allied forces liberated europe, Guevara and others obviously liberated cuba... "

This is why, as easy at it is to be hard on communism, it's tough to be hard on commies. They did, after all, smash the corrupt oligarchies. It was the reds, not the Cuban resistance, that took down Batista.

But then, out of the frying pan into the fire.

And I'm speaking as an older guy who remembers the Looming Spectre of the Evil Empire, not some whippersnapper who thinks Maggie Thatcher put up a wall in Berlin to stop illegal immigration into Germany.

Hilmar sure likes talking bollocks but I guess it makes good PR!

Get a grip for heaven's sake!
OK, EVE is interesting because it's offering a more free-form context to move around in, allowing real people to behave socially as in real life. And it has lots of users all together on one system. Fine so far.
BUT: people have to invest REAL amounts of time - sizable chunks of their (presumably/hopefully) free time.
Personally, I'd prefer those 300,000+ souls using that time to be out and about on the other side of their front doors, getting on with REAL lives: interacting with their REAL surroundings in an inspired and creative manner, and having the odd session of Wii Sports with some friends.
And what Che Guevara and Hitler analogies are doing here, beats me. 10 points for attention-getting, 0 for realism. Get your feet back on the ground, Mr Games Journalist, please.

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Absolutely excellent article.

That is all.

EVE is a thriving independent. That's what Pat's getting at, and although the Cuba vs. Imperialist US analogy seems a tad contrived, it's a likable one - to me.

I mean, look at other current MMOGs. Even LotRO, which is pretty decent, has recycled most of WoW's ideas (that admittedly were also recycled in the first place), but the engine is also just a reworking of the DDO one, and the character models look like - to varying degrees - bloated michelin men and women and hobbitses. All textures wrapped around their stuffed or emaciated limbs, save for the ubiqitious cloak flapping freely behind!

There is in fact, a case of EA-itis plaguing the world of MMOGs, but CCP has resisted this, and has remained a true independent.

One man's freedom can be another man's prison, and some cubanos make a desperate paddle to the states, but not all of them.

EVE being attacked as a hardcore geek's dream irks me. We need more "extreme" or "hardcore" games, like EVE! In all areas of culture we see an americanized, santized watering down of culture. I see the best games as works of art, and the best MMOGs as more than just a place to tally up a score to inflate my ego (of course, one does that too). I see the best MMOGs as places to escape, to dream, and really apply myself to a system that is more advanced than some inane one-step, two-step dance lesson - all together now. The best MMOGs offer opportunity but also harsh consequences. The best MMOGs don't make you feel drip-fed like some tread-wheeling hamster.

For 3 years CCP and EVE has been one of the best MMOGs for me, and certainly THE BEST space simulator. Roll on EVE.

Here is a very nice book regarding the different motivations and reactions people have when confronted with "Freedom":

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Escape-Freedom-E...

E U R @ G A M E R

sgeddes: Hitler!?

I'd prefer those 300,000+ soulsblah blah blah...getting on with REAL lives

I'd prefer you didn't waste your time posting opinions on a gaming forum. But we don't always get what we want do we?

@alptighen:
Well, communism is easily attacked...
But I can honestly say some I agree with some of their ideas...

Free healthcare for everyone, regardless of race, religion or sex for instance...
Free education from the first schools to the end of university...

Point is it's very hard to implement...

I think that communism has become a negative ephitet now...
But unfortunately not really for their ideas but for the communist nutcases that were around...
Whereas fascism had its nutcases, but is also a stupid idea...

IMO ofcourse...

This atricle illustrates my reaction to EVE quite well...

It's interesting to read abstracted top-down descriptions of what happens on EVE, the emergent behaviour and all that. But it seemed pretty dull being one of the 250,000 very small cogs in the bottom-up machine that grinds out those two interesting news articles per year.

I'd rather be a journalist writing about EVE than a regular subscriber playing it (or perhaps I should say contributing to it, if we accept that it's not a game).

riverman: Page 1 of the article - Hitler's in there, take a look.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a gamer, not someone who thinks those pesky video games are the work of the devil. I see some titles as works of art, and worthy of more attention from "non-gamers".

I just feel the real-world analogies used in this article way off-kilter, that's all.

Just my opinion. As a gamer. Relax, man.

"if we accept that it's not a game"

Let's not, please?

Great article - it's exactly that ense that keeps me playing Eve.

Yes, it's just a game, but it's a bloody great one

Wow, quite possibly one of the most pretentious things I've ever read.

That Latin - American nonsense can do one as well.

Do one Che you n00b

Oh yeah, and join the Eve grooup at Eurogamers :D

Wow, quite possibly one of the most pretentious things I've ever read.

+1

I love it :)

I beta tested EVE way back when (over 4 years ago now - how old am i feeling?!?)...and i'm still play it today. I'm on my main, but second character, which is now approaching 3 years of age (45million skill points to those that play) i have some experience in the game - a handful of prize posessions and a love for player versus player interaction - especially the odd bit of piracy...(ssshhh, don't tell my CEO in-game!).

To show a testament of time for a game, 3 years is astonishing to keep someone entertained (especially myself, who like many gamers, goes from one MMO to another). Without naming names (cough* WoW) which i bought and played for 2 hours, in comparison - i've played EVE for roughly 10 hours a week 52 weeks a year, 3 years on...i suppose EVE is what i look for in a game - complexity!

The fact that the developers of EVE show such interest and update the game for the gamers rather than purely for marketing hypes is a huge inspiration for other developers and also a sign of a long life ahead. Once Revelations II is released (all be it with the usual 'tiny' bugs and lag issues that come with) the game will have even more excitement added to its never ending, adrenaline infused, community based brilliance!

All i can say is well done CCP for keeping me happy and supplying another fee free expansion.

That article was certainly a collection of words.

Are people so afraid of an article because it doesn't stick to the usual 'intro-gameplay-grafixxx-conclusion' formula? Come on!

This is EG, and that sort of writing is exactly why most people read the frontpage here rather than head over to the other monolithic sites that are often completely devoid of personality. In any form.

I'd love to read more stuff like this, and long may it continue.

I find it quite amusing that an (excellent) article that uses polarities as a way to drive home the various points creates extreme polarities in the comments as well. :)

Personally I would love to try on EVE but I know that it'll eat me alive and I just can't afford to spend that kind of time on a game right now. :(

"This is EG, and that sort of writing is exactly why most people read the frontpage here rather than head over to the other monolithic sites that are often completely devoid of personality. In any form. "


I don't read it, I just look at the pictures.

I have to say Eve sounds fantastic - always wanted to give it a go ... but never have the time due to other commitments ...

I agree with Gurgeh. There is a huge market for a good sci fi mmo and EVE is barely tapping into it. I tried EVE when it was in beta and again last year. I really loved the pvp, commerce, and communication features of the game. However, there is an incredible amount of down time due to traveling. Resource harvesting and escorting is boring. It can be argued that it's not much different from grinding and collecting items in WOW, but WOW offers you more choices of slightly less boring things to do (anyone can craft, anyone can PVP unlike in EVE) and offers clearer hints about how you can progress. Unless you have some kind of connection to get you into an important corporation (unlikely since only 170K ppl play this game) you will be stuck in a tedious routine indefinitely. If you have the extra money to burn or run multiple apps at once, you can probably get away with playing your usual game(s) of choice then chipping in to this one on the side.

When's EVE II out?

EVE has steered thankfully clear of the sequelitis plaguing all EA-like americanized drivel that is pushed upon us every spring and christmas in the guise of it being something "new".

EVE will reach it's next version complete by the time this is realized, bear in mind this is a small video, and the quality is not too good, but it is ingame, realtime:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/index.php?q=...

And about the Gurgeh and Wired009 comments on EVE barely tapping into the Sci-Fi side of things... No. EVE offers a plethora of areas and options to focus on.

But EVE is slow-burn, it takes effort and a good bit of research on your own part to get going. Quite unlike the WoW sugar rush that all the kiddies are currently gorging (choking?) on...

"This atricle illustrates my reaction to EVE quite well...

It's interesting to read abstracted top-down descriptions of what happens on EVE, the emergent behaviour and all that. But it seemed pretty dull being one of the 250,000 very small cogs in the bottom-up machine that grinds out those two interesting news articles per year.

I'd rather be a journalist writing about EVE than a regular subscriber playing it (or perhaps I should say contributing to it, if we accept that it's not a game)."

+1 I'm quite like the PCG articles about Eve and how it compares to the real world.
The recent Chinese launch was quite amusing.
I suspect it would bore me to tears though (and I like space sims).

"The universe's southern area was populated by the Scandinavians; the southeast by the Russians; the north by the Americans; and the west by Germany, France and the Benelux region."

where do the brits hang out?

EVE is Excel in space.

I want Massive Freespace dammit.

Why are so many people dismissing this article as 'pretentious?' It may well be - and overblown to boot - but that doesn't make what it has to say any less valid, and it didn't make it any less enjoyable and interesting to read.

Personally I'd rather read something different and challenging (!) like this than some workmanlike IGN article detailing the half-heartedly mythology behind upcoming Generic Space-Marine FPS #113.

I wonder, did SBfistfun and the others calling this article 'nonsense' actually read and understand the whole thing? Somehow I doubt it.

Sounds more like niche marketing than dialectic materialism to me.
Find people who are disposed to be addicted to your product and pander to them. Take monthly subscriptions from them forever, everyone else can bugger off.
Surely all this chat about how 'real' it is, how 'difficult and uncompromising' it is, attempts to lock in hardcore repeat users for economic reasons not revolutionary ones

However this is a very good and (for me) thought provoking article which is the best I have read on Eurogamer so far. Well done.

"Why are so many people dismissing this article as 'pretentious?' It may well be - and overblown to boot - but that doesn't make what it has to say any less valid, and it didn't make it any less enjoyable and interesting to read."
Because it is pretentious and it does make what it has to say less valid.

When he says "EVE is changing the way people think about entertainment.", I smile and dismiss it as pretentious twaddle.

I could go on and on quoting the pretentious and patently false crap, but why bother when I can point and laugh at him and whoever else falls for it?

I dont have a problem with how the article is written or the content, just what Hilmar preaches.

Rhetorically overblown but striking stuff nonetheless :) Articles like this make me wish I had a PC with the necessary chutz-pah to play the damn thing.

Explain to me how EVE's relative lack of controls and user-driven evolution somehow separate it from all other online communities, again? A simple comments thread like the one we're on allows for the same level of polarisation, conflict, hierarchy etc, albeit within the perimeter of language rather than virtual space.

"EVE is the future, and she belongs in it just as much as everybody else."

So, not at all, going by the exclusionary talk from the EVE guy on the next page.

@Shwabing: while your wording is a wee harsh IMO I do fully agree with the jist of your comment. EVE is technically a nice game, as is its gameplay on paper but is also aimed at a very specific niche. Probably too specific.

Thumbs up for the small, independent game company for sure but I'd like to see them produce something that can appeal to the public at large once in a while rather than exclusively 'love it or hate it' games... if only to see some real competition for the EA's of this world.

I don't see how placing Hitler on a pedestal gives insight into the subject matter.

I'm new to eve, and in fact I've only just starting paying, having finished my trial account period. I gave eve a go a year or 2 back, but didn't last the trial (and possibly not even the tutorial now i think about it), having been excited by a PC Gamer article about the famous GHSC scam.

This time I've had a friend to guide me through the basics, and Eve is grabbing me the way it should have done first time round. It's definitely a game worth trying - but nobody can deny the massive amount of time it demands of you. Yes, it's the developer's way of taking your money, but other major MMOs are just as guilty so I'm not letting that put me off.

Escape from the re-hashes man!!!!

"Thumbs up for the small, independent game company for sure but I'd like to see them produce something that can appeal to the public at large once in a while rather than exclusively 'love it or hate it' games... if only to see some real competition for the EA's of this world. "

JoeBlade: I get your sentiment, but do you really think one competes with the EA's of this world by playing their game?

EVE's learning curve is steep, and it doesn't hold you by the hand long. There are some nasty blackholes a newbie can get sucked into, and the economic model is dense, and deep, inviting the likes of Harvard business school to conduct scenarios ingame.

In other words, it's a pretty adult game.

But you're free. No patronizing, no pandering.

This reminds me of the sentiments of the music industry at large concerning illegal copying and posting of MP3 music on the net.

Oh noes, we're gonna go bankrupt! They shouted.

Well, yeah, some of the large, constructo-pop producers and companies that churn out prefabbed idolized popstars have had a rough time...

...But the smaller independents and alot of niche bands and music have actually achieved wider audiences.

Let's not pander to audiences, let's believe in people's need for something authentic and different!

Let's have MANY love it or hate it games. You can't make everyone one love something! If you attempt that you end up with gray, drivel, spam.

I, for one, never liked globalization much.

"inviting the likes of Harvard business school to conduct scenarios ingame."

Can you elaborate on this(and since you said the likes, please tell us about the others)?