10 Years of CCP

The Free Territory of the Americas.

In December 1964, Che Guevara delivered a classic speech to the UN General Assembly in New York. The South American revolutionary effortlessly did what revolutionaries do best, inspiring, threatening and posturing, rising to his historic occasion with vehemence and dignity. It was his time and he took it neatly. During a withering diatribe focused almost exclusively on US foreign policy, Guevara said, "Cuba, distinguished delegates, a free and sovereign state with no chains binding it to anyone, with no foreign investments on its territory, with no proconsuls directing its policy, can speak with its head held high in this Assembly and can demonstrate the justice of the phrase by which it has been baptised: 'Free Territory of the Americas'."

The speech - one accompanied by rapturous applause - came towards the end of Guevara's life; he was assassinated in 1967, perhaps unsurprisingly if you read the transcript. He was peaking. He would never be more prominent, or more dangerous. Looking back through quotes attributed to Guevara, you see him becoming bolder, more cogent, more obvious as time goes on, leading up to his audience with world leaders in 1964. The progression of Hitler's speeches is very similar. The development of their ideas finally reaches a place where they cannot be ignored. They reach a place where their proponents shift from soapbox barkers to leaders.

Of course, the likes of Guevara and Hitler were genuine, historical figures, radical politicians that changed the world. Their prominence was 50, 60 years ago: now entertainment is politics and within the sphere of entertainment, interaction is the true explosion. PlayStation is a mass movement: conservatism is banality. World of Warcraft trends: socialism stagnates. But ubiquitous as games are, it could be argued that they shackle the masses, that the games industry has never had a bona fide revolutionary. We may have been led away from the grinding drudgery of television, but no one's ever threatened to take on the establishment wholesale.

Maybe the wait's finally over.

Days of Darkness

'10 Years of CCP' Screenshot 1

Hilmar Veigar Pétursson.

On June 1 2007, CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar Pétursson stood on stage at the company's 10th birthday party in Reykjavik, Iceland, and said that when he joined the EVE Online team seven years ago, he "thought he'd be making a computer game". EVE, he said completely seriously, is "changing the way people think about entertainment". "Yay," said a few in the crowd. Some smiled. Others looked confused; drank some more.

Pétursson continued, pointing a finger shyly beyond the microphone, talking about a "self-governing virtual society" before remembering himself and holding his hands up in a "whatever" sense. He played a video titled "Days of Darkness", a lengthy piece put together by EVE players depicting events in the Amarr-Minmitar war covered in the game's back-story. The club quaked to the spectacle of titan laser. Icelandic society's great and good were assembled for the reception, and there were many middle-aged business types in the crowd. Standing at the front taking photos, I turned to see the face of one grey-haired woman watching the Minmatar fleet decimated to thunderous drum and bass. She was baffled and scared, very obviously. She didn't know what was happening in that movie. It made no sense to her. A man she knew as "important" had told her this was the new face of modern entertainment and all she was seeing was a terrible display of brute force. There was no "game" on her screen. She was seeing something she didn't understand. And if this is the future, her brain was saying, I have no place in it.

Her brain was only part right. EVE is the future, and she belongs in it just as much as everybody else.

Blast off

Hilmar Pétursson is a big man with a practical joke laugh and bad skin. The day before the party, he presents at CCP's in-construction offices on the wall of Reykjavik's harbour. Taking a group of international journalists through the history of CCP and onwards through the concept of what the team is trying to achieve with EVE - demagogic arm-waving, shining eyes and all - he outlines something everyone in the room understands, but few seem to get. What Hilmar and the rest of the CCP creatives are doing has essentially nothing to do with computer gaming at all, and trying to get that across to a bunch of games journalists may have been a little along the lines of, as we on the UK say, "pissing in the wind". He doesn't seem to care.

EVE Online is an open-ended space-based massively-multiplayer online role-playing game. It's probably the one true example of a "sandbox" MMO: players, flying around in spaceships and sitting in space stations, can basically do what they like. EVE has a complex economic model and encourages players to join corporations in which they compete against other corps for financial and military supremacy. At least, that's what it's supposed to be.

Up to this point, the company has done nothing else, although the acquisition of US-based developer White Wolf has enabled the company to start work on another MMO, one based on horror franchise World of Darkness. CCP was formed in Iceland in 1997 by three friends - Reynir Harđarson, Thorolfur Beck and Ívar Kristjánsson - all of whom still work on EVE. The company was originally funded by a space combat board game called Hćuttuspil ("Danger Game"). Pétursson joined as CTO in 2000, rising to CEO in 2004. A closed bank offering in 2000, and a further round of funding in 2002 put EVE into full production, but, classically, only a publishing deal with American outfit Simon and Schuster gave CCP the money to finish and release EVE on disc. Pétursson tells us that during the darker days of 2001, all the staff worked for three months without wages. No one quit.

'10 Years of CCP' Screenshot 2

EVE Online. That's me. Being a pirate.

EVE cost USD $6 million to make. With Simon and Schuster getting out of games in 2003, CCP bought the distribution rights back and began offering the EVE client free to download in 2004, a situation that remains the same today.

"It took about half a year to negotiate with the management of Simon and Schuster to get the rights back," says Pétursson. "Then we turned the model around and really only started offering EVE as a digital download and stopped retail distribution, and started to market EVE more as an Internet application rather than a game. We've always seen this more as a service than a product. Not going into a store to buy a product, of course, makes sense now, but back then it was a breakthrough."

The forefront of the impossible

'10 Years of CCP' Screenshot 3

Ívar Kristjánsson.

Innovation led to success. Over 200,000 people are currently playing EVE, he says, a reiteration from May's Nordic Game event. Exactly, there are 172,250 subscribers and 31,330 players on their month's free trial. Tenuously, more than 700 people actually work on EVE today, including 207 main staff and over 350 in-game volunteers. While it's a long stretch from WoW's eight million players ("Our goal was never to make the biggest game... although we wouldn't mind having eight million subscribers."), EVE, Pétursson says, is simply not the same product. In fact, the way he's talking, EVE isn't even the same medium.

For a start, the game's notoriously difficult and gives the player very little idea of how to play it. This is shown clearly in the retention of subscribers: about 50% cancel their subs in the first six months. Pétursson says this is a good thing, a polar opposite philosophy to practically ever other MMO creator in the world.

"We're often asked why we don't just fix it, why we don't make it easier to start," he says. "You could look at this as a great weakness. We lose more than half the people in the first six months, so why don't we make it easier and more accessible? It's important to note that this is the filter that creates the community. Messing about too much with it would really affect what keeps people playing the game... The people that have this mindset are the game's strongest asset."

More than 3 million people have tried EVE. A fraction remain. Why? Probably because most of them want to play a game. And EVE isn't a game. It's a revolution.

"We're at the forefront of the impossible," Pétursson tells a room full of largely blank faces. "We have been for the past four years."

'10 Years of CCP' Screenshot 4

EVE Online, circa 2000.

Questioning looks abound. Hilmar's just getting warmed up.

"We believe massively-multiplayer games have grown up from MUDs and are now entering a new phase, which we look much more on as virtually run societies," he says. "If you look back on the things that have happened in EVE in the past weeks and years, it doesn't really look as though the people that are part of the game-loop experience it as a game. It feels real to them, and they react to it, and they talk about it, and they have feelings about it as if it were real. And if you have 200,000 people being a part of something that they regard as real, then it is real. Even though it's virtual, it is real. There are real friendships, there are real feelings, there are real enemies. We think of EVE more as a society than a computer game."

You can hear a pin drop. It's going to be a bit tricky writing a "feature about EVE" from this, think 15 Mr Games Journalisms. Why isn't the funny man talking about spaceships?

Better red than dead

Pétursson, hands whirling, expounds his theory of "theme park" as opposed to "playground" methods of MMO design. World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 are theme park games, he says, with EVE and Ultima Online sitting in the playground "school". While none of the games are perfect implementations of either approach, EVE, says Pétursson, "emphasises the playground."

Still listening for the pin.

"The analogy is that the theme park is a carefully constructed experience, which is supposed to be fun, condensed, easy to access and is entertainment," he says. "It's really well defined. You never have any doubt about what you have to do. You just wait in line. You go on the rollercoaster, which is fun, then you go out and you go home. The playground is basically just a sandbox. There are toys there. There are more kids than toys, and they usually fight about it. They build sandcastles, but the others just mess them up all the time. There's a nanny there, but she isn't really watching. She's too busy cleaning up the kiddie poop."

On the plus side, you make more friends in the playground. You don't go to Disneyland to make friends, says Hilmar. Also, having friends means you can be collectively more powerful than the kids that are knocking your sandcastles down. Negatively, there are no clear goals - which many find confusing - and there's no true playground hero. Governance is also a problem. "Anarchy leads to despotism," says the presentation slide.

While the playground approach may not lead to the biggest games, being the biggest "was not necessarily the goal". "The goal was to really innovate and to try and do something that's breaking new ground," says Pétursson. "It's been constant pain and struggle, but we really feel as though it's worth something."

'10 Years of CCP' Screenshot 5

What Icelandic game developers look like.

He starts talking about social networking, and not just of sites like Facebook and YouTube. Back through history, he says, the Masons and similar groups have been bringing people together in the same way. EVE fuses old and new players, "creating a positive and beneficial relationship between the two groups. And also, when you don't have any shards, you have a big integrated community, and you don't reach a critical mass in terms of really having something that can be called a society. You don't have to break it up into little pockets of 15,000 players with no real connection between them."

EVE, for the sake of clarity, is played on a single server, the largest social software of its type to do so. Games like World of Warcraft, Lineage II, Guild Wars, and so on, are played on servers with number limits, often called "shards". Tranquility, EVE's live server, is housed in a two-ton supercomputer in London which will apparently enter the top 500 list of the world's most powerful computers this year.

Hilmar quotes Metcalfe's law, a theory that states that the value of a telecommunications network is proportional to the square of the number of users of the system. Listening to my recording of the presentation is hilarious. There's not a single sound in that room apart from Hilmar's voice, an occasional cough and me typing.

Rabbits, war, deliberative democracy

"When you make something that's about connecting people together, then each new subscriber increases the value of the application," he says. "For example, your fax machine only has as much worth as the number of fax machines you can send faxes to. The value of MSN is how many people are using MSN. It's not the features of MSN. ICQ, Skype, Yahoo! Messenger: they all do the same, but the value is who's on it. Our belief is that each individual new EVE subscriber really adds value to the people that are already playing the game. So, EVE is a fundamentally better game with 200,000 people than it was with 50,000 people, and it will be an even greater game when it has 300,000 people."

When EVE goes over 300,000 players it will have a bigger population than Iceland. No other game can claim anything like this amount on one server. Hilmar recounts a story of player politics in the first year of EVE's play to give an example of what happens when you have a large population in the same virtual area. It illustrates, he says, "exactly how deep the rabbit hole goes".

'10 Years of CCP' Screenshot 6

EVE GMs. GMing.

In the beginning, EVE's population began to group in areas of "low security" space largely by nationality. In the EVE universe, the central region is "high security" and is known as Empire space. There are four races in EVE - Amarr, Minmitar, Caldari and Gallente - and their Empire home-worlds are all grouped in the centre of the massive play area. This is the most populated part of the map. It's where characters start out, the increased level of protection meaning they're safe (ish) from piracy. As players gather skills and assets, they generally move into lower security space, where rewards are higher but there's no aegis from the NPC police force, Concord.

The universe's southern area was populated by the Scandinavians; the southeast by the Russians; the north by the Americans; and the west by Germany, France and the Benelux region. The Russians had to hack the EVE client because it didn't support Cyrillic script. Once they'd done this, they couldn't speak any other language to anyone, because all anyone with a non-hacked client saw was "boxes and stars and crap". Violence became the only communication available to them, and the Russians were constantly at war with their neighbours, the Scandinavians.

Despite being better organised, having weight of numbers and general tactical advantage, the Russians weren't winning and they couldn't understand why. Turns out the Americans were funding the Scandinavian effort, despite the assertion that they didn't want to get involved in any war and were "just making ships". They'd created supply lines through Empire space, space protected by Concord. The Russians discovered the alliance and convinced the French in the west to attack the Americans and stop the ship supply to the Scandinavians. The Russians then won. The conflict spanned three months and involved 16,000 people.

"I mean, this is a real war," says Pétursson. "It was won on logistics, as all wars are, and for all the people participating it really felt real. And that's the point. When you really allow people to play in the playground, you get meta-patterns and meta-gameplay emerging. It was amazing to follow."

Despotism, monarchy, anarcho-capitalism, democracy, deliberative democracy. Walking on space stations. Replicating the micro-cosmos. Hilmar briefly takes us through the graphical update planned for the coming months. A major content update is coming later this year. The screen says the words:

"EVE's virtual world state is social equity. One shard. It's real."

Hilmar smiles and there's clapping. And I can't help thinking I've seen the groundwork of something gigantic.

An unstoppable force

When I interviewed Hilmar at Nordic Game in May, I put it to him that EVE Online wasn't a game at all. It's a life-metaphor, I said, and the driving factors within its confines are the same that compel people to progress in everyday life. He agreed. People want popularity, money, power, friendship and, obviously, a bigger car/spaceship. And they don't know why. The reason so many people get put off EVE is because they expect it to be World of Warcraft in space. When it isn't, they leave. They don't see the point of it. There are no queues to join. There are no rollercoasters to ride.

They don't see a point, because the point is that EVE's universe exists and you enjoy existing within it. EVE's "point" is the same as life's "point". Everything matters, so nothing matters. It just is. If you think about it too hard you either won't get up tomorrow morning or you'll bounce out of bed grinning like a monkey, so go easy. The fact is that CCP has created something unique in its field, and has every chance, as Hilmar said at CCP's birthday party, of changing the face of modern entertainment. Pétursson's quiet hypotheses will become bolder and more obvious as time goes on and subscriptions grow, and in the end it won't be befuddled games journos taking notice: it'll be everyone. Don't believe me? "They" didn't believe Che Guevara, either. Until they shot him.

EVE Online is gaming's Free Territory of the Americas. It's Hilmar's Cuba. CCP hasn't hit its peak yet. It's far from it. There are no foreign investments on its territory, and there are no proconsuls directing its policy. EVE is free from the rest of an industry drowning under rampant me-tooism and the tyranny of convention, and the message is spreading. The players of EVE Online aren't manacled by content, or shepherded into "experiences". EVE's users are creators of their own destinies.

'10 Years of CCP' Screenshot 7

Winding up his speech in 1964, Guevara blasted the UN with the following: "This epic before us is going to be written by the hungry Indian masses, the peasants without land, the exploited workers. It is going to be written by the progressive masses, the honest and brilliant intellectuals, who so greatly abound in our suffering Latin American lands. A struggle of masses and of ideas. An epic that will be carried forward by our peoples, mistreated and scorned by imperialism; our people, unreckoned with until today, who are now beginning to shake off their slumber. Imperialism considered us a weak and submissive flock; and now it begins to be terrified of that flock; a gigantic flock of 200 million Latin Americans in whom Yankee monopoly capitalism now sees its gravediggers."

We don't have to be dictated to. This is about you. This is not about "game" or "MMO" or "level" or "raiding" or anything in between. This is about how you choose to exist, in both virtual and actual reality. It's about real life, about a finally connected science-fact. In the last 10 years, CCP has created something that gives you the option. You decide. Do you want to be led blindly by the hand, staring into the bowels of your computer, or do you want to join a revolt against "content," against "limits," against pressing "w" for eight hours a day for months on end for a suit of armour anyone can get if they do the same? Do you want to tell or be told? Do you want to obey and serve or are you ready to be free to make your own mark? "They" had to kill Che Guevara to stop his dream. Please believe me when I say there are certain companies within the online games industry that are certainly disingenuous, pathetic and ruthless enough to survive comparison to Guevara's "imperialism", but thankfully they stop short of murder. The only thing that's going to halt Hilmar's vision is if you - we - don't have the balls to share it. Together, we are unstoppable.

It's up to all of us. It's up to the Free Territory of the Americas. Here's to another decade, CCP. Happy birthday.

Comments (64) Latest comment 5 years ago

Comments threads automatically close after 30 days, but please feel free to continue chatting on the forum!

  • Balfa #1 5 years ago

    Except Cuba isn't in South America
  • MrWonderstuff #2 5 years ago

    When devs get to the point of making ships explorable then count me interested. I seem to recall a news article pointing out that girls didnt like 'being spaceships' hence the lack of interest in the genre...I'm no girl but I can sympathise with that point.

    So devs...let us repair our warp drives but scooting down to enginneering and seeing whats what, let us put the ship on autopilot while we play a game of chess in the back room, let us have our own cabin. Unreal 2 got that feel right with their ship...it just wasnt moving in a mmorpg space highway.
  • Crea #3 5 years ago

    This article is sailing a little close to pretentious Edge territory for me.
  • Darkedge #4 5 years ago

    it is a typical communist country, even down to the corruption.
    Shame I don't think i'd like to live (play) in one, certainly not one for accountants
  • rudedudejude #5 5 years ago

    Played it for a month, it's a hardcore geeks wet dream, too geeky for me I'm afraid.
  • Gurgeh #6 5 years ago

    The biggest problem with EVE is CCP. The game has developed a lot further than their own organisation. If you look at the lastest patch tha's going in to the game there are huge sweeping changes being implemented with relatively little testing. Some things work, some things dont, exploits and borderline exploits abound, lag and bugs plague the servers and there's very little explanation for any of it.

    To me what EVE shows more than anything is that there's an opportunity for another company to do the same thing better, but space sims haven't been flavour of the month for a long long time.
  • Murmillo #7 5 years ago

    Cubans risk their lives just for the chance to flee their country. This is probably not the experience to which most game developers aspire.

    Also, your Communist poster boy was a thug and a murderer.
  • AlpTighen #8 5 years ago

    Is it me, or is it a bit odd to compare a fascist/communist guerrilla to an anarchist MMO made from an anarchist country?

    Edit: Oh nm, I get it. It's a polar-opposites thing. Wild applause vs. quiet speaking and the like. Sorry, I'm stupid today :/
    Edited by 1 at 15/06/07 @ 14:20
  • Bertie Verified Senior Staff Writer, Eurogamer.net #9 5 years ago

    Not one mention of space zombies. Not in the entire piece!

    Interesting sentiment, though, and it's encouraging to see a developer willing to be different.
  • absolutezero #10 5 years ago

    Oh Hay I heard this article is about EvZzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZz
  • AcidSnake #11 5 years ago

    @murmillo:

    Careful, I don't want to spark any debate or anything but in a way the allied forces in the second world war could be murderers as well...
    In the sense that they murdered people...

    Same for Guevara...

    So it really comes down to agreeing with their motives or not...
    The allied forces liberated europe, Guevara and others obviously liberated cuba...

    To some people I mean...
  • bslsimes #12 5 years ago

    I imagine the reason why a lot of people leave EVE is that they get griefed, find out that the devs know about the hole that allows the griefing but don't plan on doing anything about it, and decide that they'd rather not waste their time or money on the game any more.

    EVE is indeed like a playground, except that the nanny is not only not paying attention but actually doesn't care whether the psycho kids stab the others or not.
    Edited by 1 at 15/06/07 @ 14:34
  • AlpTighen #13 5 years ago

    "The allied forces liberated europe, Guevara and others obviously liberated cuba... "

    This is why, as easy at it is to be hard on communism, it's tough to be hard on commies. They did, after all, smash the corrupt oligarchies. It was the reds, not the Cuban resistance, that took down Batista.

    But then, out of the frying pan into the fire.

    And I'm speaking as an older guy who remembers the Looming Spectre of the Evil Empire, not some whippersnapper who thinks Maggie Thatcher put up a wall in Berlin to stop illegal immigration into Germany.
  • ave #14 5 years ago

    Hilmar sure likes talking bollocks but I guess it makes good PR!
  • sgeddes #15 5 years ago

    Get a grip for heaven's sake!
    OK, EVE is interesting because it's offering a more free-form context to move around in, allowing real people to behave socially as in real life. And it has lots of users all together on one system. Fine so far.
    BUT: people have to invest REAL amounts of time - sizable chunks of their (presumably/hopefully) free time.
    Personally, I'd prefer those 300,000+ souls using that time to be out and about on the other side of their front doors, getting on with REAL lives: interacting with their REAL surroundings in an inspired and creative manner, and having the odd session of Wii Sports with some friends.
    And what Che Guevara and Hitler analogies are doing here, beats me. 10 points for attention-getting, 0 for realism. Get your feet back on the ground, Mr Games Journalist, please.
  • space_ace #16 5 years ago

  • w00t #17 5 years ago

    Absolutely excellent article.

    That is all.
  • SleepyMagpie #18 5 years ago

    EVE is a thriving independent. That's what Pat's getting at, and although the Cuba vs. Imperialist US analogy seems a tad contrived, it's a likable one - to me.

    I mean, look at other current MMOGs. Even LotRO, which is pretty decent, has recycled most of WoW's ideas (that admittedly were also recycled in the first place), but the engine is also just a reworking of the DDO one, and the character models look like - to varying degrees - bloated michelin men and women and hobbitses. All textures wrapped around their stuffed or emaciated limbs, save for the ubiqitious cloak flapping freely behind!

    There is in fact, a case of EA-itis plaguing the world of MMOGs, but CCP has resisted this, and has remained a true independent.

    One man's freedom can be another man's prison, and some cubanos make a desperate paddle to the states, but not all of them.

    EVE being attacked as a hardcore geek's dream irks me. We need more "extreme" or "hardcore" games, like EVE! In all areas of culture we see an americanized, santized watering down of culture. I see the best games as works of art, and the best MMOGs as more than just a place to tally up a score to inflate my ego (of course, one does that too). I see the best MMOGs as places to escape, to dream, and really apply myself to a system that is more advanced than some inane one-step, two-step dance lesson - all together now. The best MMOGs offer opportunity but also harsh consequences. The best MMOGs don't make you feel drip-fed like some tread-wheeling hamster.

    For 3 years CCP and EVE has been one of the best MMOGs for me, and certainly THE BEST space simulator. Roll on EVE.

    Here is a very nice book regarding the different motivations and reactions people have when confronted with "Freedom":

    [link url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Escape- Freedom-Erich-H-Fromm/dp/0805031499/ref=pd_bowtega_1/026-551 5412-5090804?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1181915574&sr=1-1
    ]http://ww w.amazon.co.uk/Escape-Freedom-E...[/link]
    Edited by 1 at 15/06/07 @ 15:03
  • -TKF- #19 5 years ago

  • riverman66 #20 5 years ago

    sgeddes: Hitler!?

    I'd prefer those 300,000+ soulsblah blah blah...getting on with REAL lives

    I'd prefer you didn't waste your time posting opinions on a gaming forum. But we don't always get what we want do we?
    Edited by 1 at 15/06/07 @ 15:01
  • AcidSnake #21 5 years ago

    @alptighen:
    Well, communism is easily attacked...
    But I can honestly say some I agree with some of their ideas...

    Free healthcare for everyone, regardless of race, religion or sex for instance...
    Free education from the first schools to the end of university...

    Point is it's very hard to implement...

    I think that communism has become a negative ephitet now...
    But unfortunately not really for their ideas but for the communist nutcases that were around...
    Whereas fascism had its nutcases, but is also a stupid idea...

    IMO ofcourse...
  • Morte66 #22 5 years ago

    This atricle illustrates my reaction to EVE quite well...

    It's interesting to read abstracted top-down descriptions of what happens on EVE, the emergent behaviour and all that. But it seemed pretty dull being one of the 250,000 very small cogs in the bottom-up machine that grinds out those two interesting news articles per year.

    I'd rather be a journalist writing about EVE than a regular subscriber playing it (or perhaps I should say contributing to it, if we accept that it's not a game).
  • sgeddes #23 5 years ago

    riverman: Page 1 of the article - Hitler's in there, take a look.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm a gamer, not someone who thinks those pesky video games are the work of the devil. I see some titles as works of art, and worthy of more attention from "non-gamers".

    I just feel the real-world analogies used in this article way off-kilter, that's all.

    Just my opinion. As a gamer. Relax, man.
  • ave #24 5 years ago

    "if we accept that it's not a game"

    Let's not, please?
  • Ginger #25 5 years ago

    Great article - it's exactly that ense that keeps me playing Eve.

    Yes, it's just a game, but it's a bloody great one
  • SBfistfun #26 5 years ago

    Wow, quite possibly one of the most pretentious things I've ever read.

    That Latin - American nonsense can do one as well.

    Do one Che you n00b

  • Ginger #27 5 years ago

    Oh yeah, and join the Eve grooup at Eurogamers :D
  • Azazel #28 5 years ago

    Wow, quite possibly one of the most pretentious things I've ever read.

    +1

    I love it :)
  • anotherrobharvey #29 5 years ago

    I beta tested EVE way back when (over 4 years ago now - how old am i feeling?!?)...and i'm still play it today. I'm on my main, but second character, which is now approaching 3 years of age (45million skill points to those that play) i have some experience in the game - a handful of prize posessions and a love for player versus player interaction - especially the odd bit of piracy...(ssshhh, don't tell my CEO in-game!).

    To show a testament of time for a game, 3 years is astonishing to keep someone entertained (especially myself, who like many gamers, goes from one MMO to another). Without naming names (cough* WoW) which i bought and played for 2 hours, in comparison - i've played EVE for roughly 10 hours a week 52 weeks a year, 3 years on...i suppose EVE is what i look for in a game - complexity!

    The fact that the developers of EVE show such interest and update the game for the gamers rather than purely for marketing hypes is a huge inspiration for other developers and also a sign of a long life ahead. Once Revelations II is released (all be it with the usual 'tiny' bugs and lag issues that come with) the game will have even more excitement added to its never ending, adrenaline infused, community based brilliance!

    All i can say is well done CCP for keeping me happy and supplying another fee free expansion.
  • Chris Gardiner #30 5 years ago

    That article was certainly a collection of words.
  • manuel_garcia #31 5 years ago

    Are people so afraid of an article because it doesn't stick to the usual 'intro-gameplay-grafixxx-conclusion' formula? Come on!

    This is EG, and that sort of writing is exactly why most people read the frontpage here rather than head over to the other monolithic sites that are often completely devoid of personality. In any form.

    I'd love to read more stuff like this, and long may it continue.
  • Martin #32 5 years ago

    I find it quite amusing that an (excellent) article that uses polarities as a way to drive home the various points creates extreme polarities in the comments as well. :)

    Personally I would love to try on EVE but I know that it'll eat me alive and I just can't afford to spend that kind of time on a game right now. :(
  • Crea #33 5 years ago

    "This is EG, and that sort of writing is exactly why most people read the frontpage here rather than head over to the other monolithic sites that are often completely devoid of personality. In any form. "


    I don't read it, I just look at the pictures.
  • marc_si #34 5 years ago

    I have to say Eve sounds fantastic - always wanted to give it a go ... but never have the time due to other commitments ...
  • wired009 #35 5 years ago

    I agree with Gurgeh. There is a huge market for a good sci fi mmo and EVE is barely tapping into it. I tried EVE when it was in beta and again last year. I really loved the pvp, commerce, and communication features of the game. However, there is an incredible amount of down time due to traveling. Resource harvesting and escorting is boring. It can be argued that it's not much different from grinding and collecting items in WOW, but WOW offers you more choices of slightly less boring things to do (anyone can craft, anyone can PVP unlike in EVE) and offers clearer hints about how you can progress. Unless you have some kind of connection to get you into an important corporation (unlikely since only 170K ppl play this game) you will be stuck in a tedious routine indefinitely. If you have the extra money to burn or run multiple apps at once, you can probably get away with playing your usual game(s) of choice then chipping in to this one on the side.
  • Errol #36 5 years ago

  • SleepyMagpie #37 5 years ago

    EVE has steered thankfully clear of the sequelitis plaguing all EA-like americanized drivel that is pushed upon us every spring and christmas in the guise of it being something "new".

    EVE will reach it's next version complete by the time this is realized, bear in mind this is a small video, and the quality is not too good, but it is ingame, realtime:

    [link url=http ://www.tentonhammer.com/index.php?q=node/620
    ]http://ww w.tentonhammer.com/index.php?q=...[/link]

    And about the Gurgeh and Wired009 comments on EVE barely tapping into the Sci-Fi side of things... No. EVE offers a plethora of areas and options to focus on.

    But EVE is slow-burn, it takes effort and a good bit of research on your own part to get going. Quite unlike the WoW sugar rush that all the kiddies are currently gorging (choking?) on...
  • TR421 #38 5 years ago

    "This atricle illustrates my reaction to EVE quite well...

    It's interesting to read abstracted top-down descriptions of what happens on EVE, the emergent behaviour and all that. But it seemed pretty dull being one of the 250,000 very small cogs in the bottom-up machine that grinds out those two interesting news articles per year.

    I'd rather be a journalist writing about EVE than a regular subscriber playing it (or perhaps I should say contributing to it, if we accept that it's not a game)."

    +1 I'm quite like the PCG articles about Eve and how it compares to the real world.
    The recent Chinese launch was quite amusing.
    I suspect it would bore me to tears though (and I like space sims).
  • konniehuqfan #39 5 years ago

    "The universe's southern area was populated by the Scandinavians; the southeast by the Russians; the north by the Americans; and the west by Germany, France and the Benelux region."

    where do the brits hang out?
  • AOFanboi #40 5 years ago

    EVE is Excel in space.

    I want Massive Freespace dammit.
  • bit_mite #41 5 years ago

    Why are so many people dismissing this article as 'pretentious?' It may well be - and overblown to boot - but that doesn't make what it has to say any less valid, and it didn't make it any less enjoyable and interesting to read.

    Personally I'd rather read something different and challenging (!) like this than some workmanlike IGN article detailing the half-heartedly mythology behind upcoming Generic Space-Marine FPS #113.

    I wonder, did SBfistfun and the others calling this article 'nonsense' actually read and understand the whole thing? Somehow I doubt it.
  • Schwabing #42 5 years ago

    Sounds more like niche marketing than dialectic materialism to me.
    Find people who are disposed to be addicted to your product and pander to them. Take monthly subscriptions from them forever, everyone else can bugger off.
    Surely all this chat about how 'real' it is, how 'difficult and uncompromising' it is, attempts to lock in hardcore repeat users for economic reasons not revolutionary ones

    However this is a very good and (for me) thought provoking article which is the best I have read on Eurogamer so far. Well done.
    Edited by 1 at 15/06/07 @ 22:48
  • ave #43 5 years ago

    "Why are so many people dismissing this article as 'pretentious?' It may well be - and overblown to boot - but that doesn't make what it has to say any less valid, and it didn't make it any less enjoyable and interesting to read."
    Because it is pretentious and it does make what it has to say less valid.

    When he says "EVE is changing the way people think about entertainment.", I smile and dismiss it as pretentious twaddle.

    I could go on and on quoting the pretentious and patently false crap, but why bother when I can point and laugh at him and whoever else falls for it?

    I dont have a problem with how the article is written or the content, just what Hilmar preaches.
  • dirigiblebill #44 5 years ago

    Rhetorically overblown but striking stuff nonetheless :) Articles like this make me wish I had a PC with the necessary chutz-pah to play the damn thing.

    Explain to me how EVE's relative lack of controls and user-driven evolution somehow separate it from all other online communities, again? A simple comments thread like the one we're on allows for the same level of polarisation, conflict, hierarchy etc, albeit within the perimeter of language rather than virtual space.
  • bslsimes #45 5 years ago

    "EVE is the future, and she belongs in it just as much as everybody else."

    So, not at all, going by the exclusionary talk from the EVE guy on the next page.
  • JoeBlade #46 5 years ago

    @Shwabing: while your wording is a wee harsh IMO I do fully agree with the jist of your comment. EVE is technically a nice game, as is its gameplay on paper but is also aimed at a very specific niche. Probably too specific.

    Thumbs up for the small, independent game company for sure but I'd like to see them produce something that can appeal to the public at large once in a while rather than exclusively 'love it or hate it' games... if only to see some real competition for the EA's of this world.
  • savewilly #47 5 years ago

    I don't see how placing Hitler on a pedestal gives insight into the subject matter.
  • James173 #48 5 years ago

    I'm new to eve, and in fact I've only just starting paying, having finished my trial account period. I gave eve a go a year or 2 back, but didn't last the trial (and possibly not even the tutorial now i think about it), having been excited by a PC Gamer article about the famous GHSC scam.

    This time I've had a friend to guide me through the basics, and Eve is grabbing me the way it should have done first time round. It's definitely a game worth trying - but nobody can deny the massive amount of time it demands of you. Yes, it's the developer's way of taking your money, but other major MMOs are just as guilty so I'm not letting that put me off.

    Escape from the re-hashes man!!!!
    Edited by 1 at 16/06/07 @ 19:49
  • SleepyMagpie #49 5 years ago

    "Thumbs up for the small, independent game company for sure but I'd like to see them produce something that can appeal to the public at large once in a while rather than exclusively 'love it or hate it' games... if only to see some real competition for the EA's of this world. "

    JoeBlade: I get your sentiment, but do you really think one competes with the EA's of this world by playing their game?

    EVE's learning curve is steep, and it doesn't hold you by the hand long. There are some nasty blackholes a newbie can get sucked into, and the economic model is dense, and deep, inviting the likes of Harvard business school to conduct scenarios ingame.

    In other words, it's a pretty adult game.

    But you're free. No patronizing, no pandering.

    This reminds me of the sentiments of the music industry at large concerning illegal copying and posting of MP3 music on the net.

    Oh noes, we're gonna go bankrupt! They shouted.

    Well, yeah, some of the large, constructo-pop producers and companies that churn out prefabbed idolized popstars have had a rough time...

    ...But the smaller independents and alot of niche bands and music have actually achieved wider audiences.

    Let's not pander to audiences, let's believe in people's need for something authentic and different!

    Let's have MANY love it or hate it games. You can't make everyone one love something! If you attempt that you end up with gray, drivel, spam.

    I, for one, never liked globalization much.

  • ave #50 5 years ago

    "inviting the likes of Harvard business school to conduct scenarios ingame."

    Can you elaborate on this(and since you said the likes, please tell us about the others)?
  • SleepyMagpie #51 5 years ago

    Of course when one needs these links they're impossible to find again, but I know for a fact that Kjartan Pierre Emil, EVE's Creative Director and Founder has mentioned EVE being used in scenarios and workshops in well know business schools around the world.

    Here is, however, a blog about business in EVE on Terra Nova:

    [link url=http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova /2005/10/more_adventures.html#comments
    ]http://te rranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/20...[/link]

    And here they are at it in EVE, a typical case study, long winded, but interesting:

    [link url=http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a =topic&threadID=473105
    ]http://my eve.eve-online.com/ingameboard....[/link]

    And a stickies thread on investing in EVE:

    [link url=http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a =topic&threadID=385258
    ]http://my eve.eve-online.com/ingameboard....[/link]

    These are not all laymen pretending to be businessmen.
  • ave #52 5 years ago

    The only one I recall is a harvard student saying he was going to use eves economy as a basis for his thesis, havent seen anything else mentioned and a quick search didnt turn anything up.

    ps, you'd be surprised how many laymen(and children) do well in eves market, it's never been difficult to make money in EvE, especially compared to other MMO's
  • SleepyMagpie #53 5 years ago

    No, not surprised at all. But then again, doing well, and making alot of ingame money is relative, isn't it? And there are alot of 14 year old thirtysomethings, as well as many bright kids.

    I was trying to make the point that EVE's trade and business opportunities are vast, and allow for all sorts of wheeling and dealing, at a level that far surpasses other MMOGs. EVE's market interface has graphs and barcharts for all manner of statistics, and many of the tradeskills mirror RL terms and practices. One can play at being, or play out scenarios, as a businessman in EVE.

    And as for it being easy to make money in EVE.. Well. Fairly. I've never had a problem getting by. But not making A LOT of money. Compared to any other MMOG making A LOT of money is rather tough. Or at least requires time.

    Moneymaking in WoW, LotRO, CoH, EQII, AO, SWG and all the numerous others I've played were much more simplistic, even FFXI I would rate easier, although Chinese gil sellers swamped that game and ruined it for me at one point. And the most important point is, none of these games have an economy or bartering system that even comes CLOSE to equalling EVE's.

  • ave #54 5 years ago

    I can make 600-800mil a week for 4-5 hours work. Not lots, but doesnt take much time either. Made my first billion within a month or two of retail by employing a mining corp to get lows, mining zyd/mega myself and producing from an unlimited arma bpc. Kept making money from that but the margins got lower and lower. Not to mention the 20+billion I've made just from the t2 lottery(that took a phd in economics!).

    As for the economy being complex because it has barcharts and statistics... well ;)

    Eves economy may have more layers than most(but not all) mmo's, but it doesnt make it that much more complex or special.
  • JoeBlade #55 5 years ago

    @SleepyMagpie: Actually, I do think the only way to compete with the EAs of this world is to play their game, yes, although to a limited extent.
    The issue with niche games is that the market tapped tends to be so small as to just about cover the expenses with some marginal profit, at best. As much as I hate it, companies engaging in those endeavours are extremely susceptible to changes in the market while a juggernaut ŕ la EA isn't.
    Many a minor has succumbed to technological innovations or general userbase fluctuations and have either been absorbed or outmarketed in the end. A blockbuster title grants financial leeway, usually enough to remain both economically viable and continue investing in what would be the core projects, or at least the interesting ones.

    As an example: WoW may be the pinnacle of market-oriented games according to many a player (including myself, for the record), it will however allow Blizzard to continue developing independently and to their own accord. Even EA cannot hope to outright acquire them any longer.
    Whether Blizzard will produce only mainstream titles from now on is a different matter.
    I'm sure nitpickers will retort based on the example alone rather than the issue proper but you get the jist of it ;)

    I certainly am not advocating smaller developers moving solely towards games aimed at as large an audience as possible. I'm merely saying that the opposite - producing solely niche games - is a majestic gamble and, sadly, fails more often than it pays off.
    And while elitists will claim otherwise I daresay popular doesn't necessarily equate 'dumbed down' or outright bad. Niche, however, does unfortunately equate 'limited sales' and thus 'limited return-on-investment' in the contemporary gaming world.
  • Bezzy #56 5 years ago

    "And EVE isn't a game. It's a revolution."

    Ahhrgh, dude, you're killing me.
  • SleepyMagpie #57 5 years ago

    "I can make 600-800mil a week for 4-5 hours work. Not lots, but doesnt take much time either. Made my first billion within a month or two of retail by employing a mining corp to get lows, mining zyd/mega myself and producing from an unlimited arma bpc. Kept making money from that but the margins got lower and lower. Not to mention the 20+billion I've made just from the t2 lottery(that took a phd in economics!)."

    Good for you sir. That is a bit. But still not A LOT. Not like the big fish pull in.

    But you speak of establishing your wealth a month or two after retail (I take this to mean release?). Yes. At that time there were many fat nodes to grab easily, and without risk, in mining and elsewhere. I came into the game about 6 months after
    and the game was still wide open. But things have changed mightily since those days. Let me see you mine zyd and mega as a one man operation today without some affiliation to the corps that stake claims in 0.0 security.

    The t2 lottery you mention is also just mad luck, not many get that. And you need a research oriented character first to get to the lotteries, and that takes some time/effort. Not really a valid argument for EVE's economy doling out the dosh liberally.

    And again, currency is always relative. The figures you boast are relatively large, yes, but get into a serious war, involving losing battleships (which you will) or even capital ships on a regular basis, and that ISK is a mere pittance.

    And you will get into wars, 'cause the treasures are guarded, and even traders get mobbed out of profitable spacelanes these days.

    So I still hold that amassing wealth in EVE is tougher than many games, Ave being apt at it notwithstanding. I also wonder how EVE's economy model can be seen as simple as most other MMOGs. No, of course a barchart doesn't make for a complex ecomomy, but all the numerous methods of selling, buying, and trading, and the skills you learn to influence this, does.

    I mean, I played WoW since many of my mates did, and had some fun I will reluctantly admit. 2 characters to 60, and 10 minutes every day with auctioneer running and some half-awake speculation at the AH, and I ended up with well over a constant 2K gold from nothing (on a PvP server). That was my regular balance, I bought stuff constantly. No, it's not much, but I could do it with NO effort while waiting for people to get ready, and I could buy everything I needed and wanted, whenever. THAT is an easy economy. EVE's isn't.

    @JoeBlade: I hear your argument, and while it pops up frequently, and is a valid one, I still think industry modes of operation can be tweaked to allow for more niche titles. Middleware, Steam, and other cost reducing implementations will hopefully allow for cheaper productions. Something has to anyway, or the whole industry is heading towards a crash.

    And besides. One does not fight the devil by his own methods. A totally removed and admittedly contrived analogy would be the americans now finding themselves trampling all over their own values regarding freedom of speech, belief, etc., in the hunt for terrorists (UK too, mayhaps?), and Israel has almost become as fascist as the nazis in trying to secure their own state.

    Sweeping statements in the nature of the article that started this thread. Yay!

    (^_^)
  • Krun #58 5 years ago

    EVE is a revolutionary product. Yes, is the first and only online interactive massively multi user screen saver.
    Edited by 1 at 17/06/07 @ 06:03
  • ave #59 5 years ago

    "but I could do it with NO effort while waiting for people to get ready, and I could buy everything I needed and wanted, whenever. THAT is an easy economy. EVE's isn't."

    Thats exactly what I do in eve, take 10minutes to set buy orders and spend the other few hours a week collecting and selling - so according to your definition, eve's is an easy economy.

    PS, a BS with t2 fittings will cost under 200mil and you'll get 60+mil back from insurance, if you're losing 4 t2 fitted fleet BS a week every week you're doing something very very wrong.

    I can afford to lose a t2 fitted dread every 3 weeks(or lose around 15 before I run out of ISK) so again, I'm not sure how much of what you are saying is hype/fanboyism and how much is stuff you actually know.

    If I spent 30+hours a week in eve I would be clearing a hell of a lot more, but I already have more isk that I know what to do with and I get my kicks from WoW while training skills and spending a few hours a week in eve.

  • SleepyMagpie #60 5 years ago

    "I can afford to lose a t2 fitted dread every 3 weeks(or lose around 15 before I run out of ISK) so again, I'm not sure how much of what you are saying is hype/fanboyism and how much is stuff you actually know."

    This statement illustrates perfectly the feeling I get that you are neglecting to mention or factor in that you are either: Connected, came in at a good time, or wildly boasting and need to be told that you are very clever.

    Or lastly, maybe you're just clever along with one or more of the above.

    I still claim that EVE's economy is not easy by any means, for the starting player. If you are able to see through all the smoke that the various interfaces and tradeskills throw up, and see the deals underneath, then it may be easy. But for most folks it isn't. And the people playing EVE I have spoken with have all reported EVE as at least SEEMING complex when they first started, and that it's learning curve was steep.

    These people are not dunces.

    And everything SEEMS easy once you've mastered it.

    And even though I know how to make millions in EVE now, 3 years on, I base my rating of EVE's economy on my view then and now, and what I've had related from other players and friends.

    How can claiming EVE's economy to be somewhat complex be seen as hype/fanboyism btw? For some that can even be considered a minus..

    Anyway, I'm pretty much done flogging this horse, Anyone following this thread (haha) can make up their own mind between the comments that have been made.

    Bottom line is that I think EVE is a very good MMOG, that looks set to be getting better, and I am impressed by and respect CCP for being able to produce a game like this as a small independent, and persevere and flourish. I also see it as more mature and with more consequences than most MMOGs.

    So long, and thank you for the arguments. \O

  • cobracotton #61 5 years ago

    ok you two burbling about eve's economy take it in game and have arace in your spacships or somehting

    The ones saying this article is pretentious kiss my swingers, you are wasting my life making me read your comemnts

    and as for the girl who reckons that Hitlers ascention had nothing to do with his oratory skills go back to creationism camp or where ever you are getting your mis guided education and learn some more shite.

    ahem

    Good Article very interesting and I salute any game makers who aren't Challenging everything or in the gaming me to death. The whole russians v scandos v yankers makes for interesting contemplation.

    Ken
  • Shadar #62 5 years ago

    Pretentious trappings, but good article nonetheless. I don't really see what kind of framework the whole Che Guevara angle gave the press conference in Reykjavik, but ... at least it's unconventional. And that's good. First article on Eurogamer that I've bothered to closely read in a long time.

    I wish more game companies spoke of ideology and the politics of user experiences, rather than OMG ROCKETLAUNCHER and LOOKIT OUR TITS WE LIEK FEMALE PLAYERS TO FEEL COMFORTABLE POLEDANCING IN FANTASYLAND!!!!1
  • YourMessageHere #63 5 years ago

    I suppose my main problem with Eve is that it failed to grab me. Sure, the exclusive idea, either attract or repel players and those that stay, stay because they love it, that's fine and eminently more sensible for what they're aiming for than a WoW-type inclusiveness. However the way it looks like it plays from shots, videos etc, and the way it actually plays in practice are so completely disparate, and I expected something that I could actually control and engage with, not the hugely abstracted experience that it is in practice. I wonder if changing the interface to allow more direct control a la elite/privateer/X etc, or making it an option, would attract more players than it loses of the diehard fans of the original interface?

    Also, the whole thing about politics and so on in-game (Russians vs. everyone else, corp. espionage etc) is great to read about, but look at the numbers. CCP chap says 16,000 people were involved...of 200,000. That's 184,000 players (92% ? my maths sucks) untouched by it (much like real world politics). My experience of gameplay during my fortnight's trial was extremely tedious and had nothing remotely political to it, nor even much impetus toward or reason for interaction with other players.
  • Sarienn #64 5 years ago

    Mr. Journalist, you fell into the trap that CCP has set for you. Never believe what they tell you, or if you insist, try to see past the wrapping paper, which is always very nice coloured and pretty.

    I have always wanted to play EVE but I didn't last past the trial thingie for 5 times now. Why? Because EVE is an elitist game who does not allow, under any circumstance, n00bs. In life, we get the chance of being young and we also get 2 high level guardians to protect us (well most of us at least). In EVE we don't and CCP is eigher very very smooth in PR, or (my personal oppinion) they are all to hardcore eve players to ever give a damn about the rest. Freedom? Yeah, old and powerful players and organizations (you didn't hear me say BoB, did you now?) are free to rule a world which could have otherwise been wonderful. If I am a n00b... well pity I haven't started EVE back then in 2002 or what was the year.

    And playgrounds or no playgrounds, games ARE SUPPOSED to have fun, no? EVE is so complex that fun has nothing to do with it, and if you don't have time to spend there, you are... well, a n00b:). Do you see a circle pattern like I do?

    IMHO, If CCP would really like to do something revolutionary, considering the amount of money and dedication they require from their players for a little bit of "fun" (most EVE players own more than 1 account), they'd drop the subscription fee and get their income like a real world does - like, ads or something, rewarding the players for their time or something because, what CCP says they wanna do is NOT a game, but A SOCIETY. And at the moment, they are the only ones who can afford to even fantasise about this.

    So the conclusion is that this article is simply too "advertisment" for me. I am happy for CCP and I wish them many more years of success, but please be objective, mister Journalist, and at least don't be so strong in stating such extraordinary and revolutionary things about EVE, whithout presenting the other, not so pretty and revolutionary, part...

    One more thing (later added): some may argue that I want my games simple. That is not so. But what bothers me most about EVE is that its complexity is build in such a way that it makes most of its players... antisocial and unfriendly to say the least *cough* and some just plain paranoid *cough*. What I would like is to give EVE a 6st chance and to actually be able to socialize, a little, or at least not the get the anti-n00b attitude when I ask my n00bish questions. I understand that many EVE players are totally anti trial players, who are indeed and righteously most filtered by the game itself, but meh, you might be loosing a big bunch of nice people you could play with...
    Edited by 1 at 05/07/07 @ 09:04